Terms and Limits for Administration Positions

[Particle]

Today I had a thought that might prove to be beneficial to the server, but I also expect that it could be controversial.  I propose that certain positions be subject to Terms, or lengths of service.  Also, there should be a certain limit to how many terms can be served in a position.

Now, this could mean that we'd have to do a large turn over with existing staff in applicable positions.  The reason is to keep fresh members in the roles defined below.

Peace Keepers
Admins <= Level 3

Admins of level 4 and 5 are always specially and personally appointed by myself.  Likewise they will only be dismissed by myself.  pKs and general admins, however, I normally just approve.  My high admins come to me with recommendations regarding various prospects.

I think this measure will also help keep members on their toes since they have to worry about renewal.  I'd like to see more consistent rule enforcement, and this could help out in that department.

Peace Keepers
Term Length:  Monthly
Term Limit:  6  (6 Months)

General Admins (1-3):
Term Length:  Tri-Monthly
Term Limit:  4  (1 Year)

This post is not a vote, but I would like to tweak the terms lengths and limits based on player and staff feedback.

[Kyrie]

I like the idea for term lengths for PKs, it'll help keep new and currently playing players as PKs and eliminate the players who just stop playing consistently.
How would new PKs be chosen? Under the current system 2 PKs are given temporary status and get tested for a week. Once each of the candidates is tested, the Admins/current PKs discuss the best choices and decide from there.

I'm not sure I agree with term limits for admins, though. I just don't see enough players on the server that we have need (or can even find trustworthy enough players) for new admins every 3 months. Being an admin is a huge step up from being a PK, it takes quite  a while to completely grasp and learn to utilize all of the commands that you have access to. Most players will be unable to learn all that's needed to be a good admin in that three months, they won't really be able to do much more than they could have done as PKs, anyway.

[Celtic16]

get the hint...you go bye byes!

[Sako]

This is a great idea but I don't see why a good pk/admin would only have a limit of 6 months term/ one year.. It's like if the greatest cops of L.A would get fired because his 6 months are over.. I would suggest 1 or 2 master PK and these PK choose 2 PK per month or two months.

[HUBBA]

If anyone can give me  a good reason, of why I should step down from admin just say it.


All I have read in this forum in the last month or so is how bad we admins are. You guys ever stop and think about how the server use to be? Let me give you a little reminder! When I started in this server hardly anyone would help out. We didn't have Tokath. Only quest there was were Jaten water down and Packlines, Mostly packlines. There was no demon zone or caverns. Noobs were killed on a regular basis and kicked by certain admin when they complained about rule breaking. There was only two Peacekeepers, and one was afk 90 percent of the time. Admins would give friends and family members made up characters so they could terrorize the server and would leave or turn a blind eye when things were happening in the server. Did you forget the reason for the last clear? Exploits ring a bell?  Maybe I should not be pissed right now but I think I am a little tired of defending myself here.

I think for the record that we admins that you guys are complaining about did a @#$% good job considering it has been a long time since the last clear, and as far as I see it we are the most popular rpg server in tribes. If you look at the other servers online hardly anyone plays them. So in my eyes we bad admins have to be doing something right.


Now let me tell you what it is like to be an admin. Once you make admin you might as well forget leveling. You constantly get #tells from people asking you to do quest or people getting pissed cause you won't do quest. When you finally do get the server in order. What is the use.  You work hard on a quest and think maybe someone will enjoy it, but instead, what do you get? I will tell you what you get """WAA WAA WAA""" and why is that. Cause someone is not getting his or her way,or they didn't get enough experience or someone else is getting more.

I think I have said enough.

[Particle]

I wasn't aware that anyone was asking you to leave, Hubba.  You're one of the high admins (4+).  You'd be exempt.

I don't see a problem with this system.  If a pK doesn't make admin at some level within half a year, I don't see why it would be a bad thing to give somebody fresh a chance at it.

Likewise, if an admin can't become part of the permanent staff within another year, why not get in some fresh blood?

The current "system" (if it can be called that) of staff electrions and such would have to change and be more active to accomodate the terms system.  There's nothing wrong with that either.  I guess I just don't see why you would be upset about such an innocent change.

[Kyrie]

I think Hubba's comments were less about your specific topic, and more about the general attitude of the server and forum, of late.

[Arf]

Now let me tell you what it is like to be an admin. Once you make admin you might as well forget leveling. You constantly get #tells from people asking you to do quest or people getting pissed cause you won't do quest. When you finally do get the server in order. What is the use.  You work hard on a quest and think maybe someone will enjoy it, but instead, what do you get? I will tell you what you get """WAA WAA WAA""" and why is that. Cause someone is not getting his or her way,or they didn't get enough experience or someone else is getting more.

I was interested in Hubba's description of what it's like to be an admin...  Some admins tell me they never get emails, they never get msn's , they never get anything from the players...  

let me tell you about my experience and why i still love the job...  

When i log on the server...  or give a WAXXUP from being afk... some of the time i get no response.  sometimes a few friends will say hello and we chat about many different things...  it is nice...  

but most times i just sit and listen to the conversation in global while i watch the different asshats run about creating havoc while my screen is full of #tells, #zones, #groups, or #party and sometimes the combination of all of them.... usually so many of them i cant follow the conversations...

PLUS

i am trying to read the emails, look at screen shots, read thru the almost endless posts, research individuals on the doghouse or thru my personal notes to work out punishments or warnings, resolving the too numerous disputes that makes everybody crazy, scripting, questing, troubleshooting a n00bs character or scripts, answer the msn's and the yahoo messenger, eat, take a shower, get the kids ready for bed, talk to the wife, feed the dog, answer the phone, catch up on paperwork for work....    


doesn't leave much time for anything...  especially leveling  cause even tho I am sitting at the keyboard, working my arse off to make things better for the many ingrates that inhabit the server...  someone mugs me or even kills me and i didn't even notice cause i am so overwhelmingly busy....

and then there is the parade of sycophants that make the job entertaining...  from career criminals begging to be let out of jail cause they didn't deserve to be incarcerated...  to the n00bs who want the next spell for their character or those who don't know how to use Tokath to find the next zone to level in...  to those who cant get along and constantly argue in global spamming up everybody's screen...  making the noobs crazy...  making me crazy...  

and then the questors...  never enough exp, someone else got more, crying over the fact that they were afk and missed half of it...  or somebody is mugging them , somebody is targeting them, somebody is stopping them from getting a fair share...  

oh...  not to forget the other staff members telling me that i am the root of the problems, i am the cause of the unhappiness, or that i dont understand the dynamics of the server, or i dont have an understanding of the balance, or i don't know what it was like before the previous clears, or i dont know the characters or their historys and personalities well enough blah blah blah...
 

why do i still do it?  why do i still love it?   am i crazy?  maybe so...

but i will tell you that out off the massive amounts of problems that i encounter everyday, the difficulties and the turmoil...  there is only one thing that makes it all worth the effort...

one simple word...  speaks volumes...  lifts the spirits, causes the heart to soar high above the normal day's troubles...  sometimes brings a tear to the eye... just one word  will do all that and more...




Thanks...





pretty silly huh?

[Arf]

I do like term limits for PK's, but maybe different level's of PK's would be more appropriate.  just like the Trials... there would be time periods for each level of responsibility. Failure to maintain your level of responsibility would automatically disqualify your eligibility for the next level.

it eliminates the complacency. it requires active participation on a daily basis, and would require that the PK's be held to a higher standard.

If you are to be a person of enforceable authority you should be held to a higher standard...  higher ideals...  Players who encounter authority figures that are established by a higher standard are more likely to respond in a positive fashion to the regulations that the authority figure enforces.  Simple Greek philosophy folks...  they believed that to tolerate the infraction of the law or to allow the keepers of that law the infractions ... is to encourage civil and social disobedience.
 

There are staff members that only grace us with their presence just to keep their character from being archived...  lol   take that position and give to someone who would be more involved.  Someone who would be a positive role model for the noobs that often come to the server only to be discouraged by the behavior they witness...

[Xenos]

I like the renewal idea but don't like the term limits.  Why should a good pk get kicked out just because their limit is up?  I think term limit would only help prevent favoritism from the admin choosing the pks.  I don't believe we have that problem currently.

[JayJay]

Why should a good pk get kicked out just because their limit is up?

There could be someone better for the job.  Maybe the TRPG community could be more involved in the selection of authorities.  This could encourage players to stop acting silly and run maybe run for PK.  Why not?

[Xenos]

Why should a good pk get kicked out just because their limit is up?

There could be someone better for the job.  Maybe the TRPG community could be more involved in the selection of authorities.  This could encourage players to stop acting silly and run maybe run for PK.  Why not?

If there is someone better then they will be chosen at the 6 month trials and the old pk gone.   I see no reason for a hard limit.  Of course I trust the decision making process as it currently stands. I'm sure some people don't.

[HUBBA]

If there is someone better then they will be chosen at the 6 month trials and the old pk gone.   I see no reason for a hard limit.  Of course I trust the decision making process as it currently stands. I'm sure some people don't.

Thank you, Xenos.