Admins might for party!

[LastWish]

Thief wasn't even cleared from what I heard..  everyone told me they saw him on.

I talked to muggz, and he didn't even care..  so that leaves one person (goose).  

I don't know why Im arguing, I had nothing to do with this..  I wasn't there so I have absolutely no say in what happens.

[Silvanoshei]

Thief was cleared, goose cared, and just because someone says they "don't care" is no grounds to clear them.

[-Icer-]

Just because I didn't sit around crying and whining about it doesn't mean I did not care. =\

But I dont care to much now.. Although I definitely wouldn't mind having my char back  

[Lidge Farkley]

heh.  If I see someone (er... I should day saw as I haven't played in a few months) stuck in a tent the last thing I think is to steal from them.... simply because it can lead to a screenshot like this and a possible punishment, even though I may not have been the one to start it all.  I don't steal anyway.  I wouldn't steal in real life and I don't steal in fake life.

Thiefery absolutely pisses me off to no end.  Nobody ends up winning as eventually the thief is caught and punished and the stolen items are usually sold by the time they are caught, hence no compensation unless the owner paid insurance... which is bullmalarkey. ;-p  Of course I could argue that some people have entirely too much crap, but that still wouldn't make stealing it right nescessarily.  Take me for example; I have entirely too much crap, but it's that way because I spent a lot of time scrounging for parts and collecting things people have thrown away or given me over the years and taking care of said items rather than destroying them.  I definately don't even have the money to buy a new anything, let a lone the time to go and gather the materials I would need in a natural setting and rebuild anything.

BUT... this is a GAME and being such you must realise that even if you are just GAMING you may still be going against a lot of the IN-GAMErs personal set of morals which they impact on the game themselfes.  You should be prepared to accept the consequences of your actions in the GAME because it's just like reality TV; nobody is ever happy as long as someone doesn't fit everyone's ideas of a moral individual.

Perhaps a new strategy for Gaming is in order; people helping one an other rather than complaining to admins all the time?

Whoever isn't a bad guy should go up to Uber externally and cast some devestating spells on the roof or at the side (you can do it if you know how to get under the map) to squelch the people who're blocking the door.  It may give the trapped people enough time to teleport out.  Alternately, a high-level (or low but with ability) could also go into uber and Masstransit out the trapped people and perhaps the bad people (though I think you need to be in each others group to tele others away.)

Beep!

[Silvanoshei]

What does this have to do with morality? Three characters were cleared for a crime that only one person (which wasn't necessarily one of the three) could commit. Besides, your own personal morals and philosophies have nothing to do with this case anyway.

(And casting spells from outside Uber has nothing to do with going under the map.)

[LastWish]

Talk to Particle then..

I'm really not trying to be rude but I can't do anything about it..  I would if I could =/

[goose_gooseling]

Evidently Particle doesn't seem to have a problem with clearing three characters based on zero evidence.  

[Silvanoshei]

Well, I was talking to Particle in this thread, but he's ignoring it now. The only point left to this thread is to make it clear that these characters were cleared on a whim, not because they actualy did anything wrong.

[Particle]

These threads belong in assistance.

BTW, for those folks that can't understand why I cleared all three:
- Of the three, I've talked to two.  Both claim it was the other person.
- The ONLY proof in either direction is in the form of one screenshot.
- If nothing else, people are going to finally realize I WILL do something if rules are broken.
- I'd restore characters, but I have no way to know who is telling the truth, lying, or if they were all involved.

I'm going off what seems to be the general consensus.  If I'm wrong, so be it.  I don't want to intentionally wrong anybody, but sometimes it is unavoidable.  The real test of character comes from those who were cleared.  If they start over instead of pout, that shows real stamina and maturity.  That's something I really respect.  Don't let the server politics start to resemble the US's.  Politics aren't required for a TRPG server in the first place.  If these forums weren’t here, I doubt there would be any in the first place (that I would see).  Call it a growing pain, take one for the team, or whatever your cliché of choice may be--move on, if you were unjustly cleared, take it as a fresh start.

[Newbie]

- Of the three, I've talked to two.  Both claim it was the other person.

Goose just told be pretty much the same thing you did.

That was from a PM ^
You never said anything about Goose blaming me for putting up the tent..

I told you my side of the story, and it was the truth.


The only reason I don't want to start over.. is I got so much SP from the Keldrinite trade-in quest with Ozzy that I had a nice character with most stats maxed. And I know I'll never have an extremely good character again unless I spend days upon days of rebuilding it back again.

[goose_gooseling]

You told me nothing about anyone blaming me either, and I did not blame it on Thief or Muggz, or anyone else. I just said it wasn't my tent, which was the truth.

You said you would restore the characters, but you have no way of telling which one of us is telling the truth, lying, or if all of us were involved. There's no proof saying that ANY of us had anything to do with the blocking. So why should any of that matter? and again why should anyone have been cleared at all?

I think its a great idea to let people know that you will take action against rule breakers, but I think this was a bad situation to act on like that.

Also you said we should take this as a fresh start. I don't have the time to build up another character. I don't think you realize how long each remort takes with the new EXP system (especially the 1st remort). With school, homework, hockey, guitar lessons, etc, I just wouldn't have the time to make another character. Otherwise I wouldn't be saying anything more about this.

[Silvanoshei]

- The ONLY proof in either direction is in the form of one screenshot.

And the only thing that screenshot proves is that a tent existed. So you basically just said that you have no proof.

If nothing else, people are going to finally realize I WILL do something if rules are broken.

So what, these guys get to be the scapegoats for everything amiss with the server just because they steal? Please.

I'd restore characters, but I have no way to know who is telling the truth, lying, or if they were all involved.

So why didn't you clear everyone in the server that night? Oh, right, because everyone else doesn't have a reputation for stealing (which is legal under circumstances anyway).

I'm going off what seems to be the general consensus.

And the only reason this "consensus" has spoken the way it did is because the three that were cleared weren't well liked. "I don't like him because he steals. That obviously means they did it!"

The real test of character comes from those who were cleared.  If they start over instead of pout, that shows real stamina and maturity.

So why not clear everybody and see how they react? Oh, right, again, they don't have a reputation for stealing.


Like I said before, what seems to be the only reason these individuals were cleared is because, "what better scapegoat than a person with a bad reputation?" There was no proof whatsoever pointing to any of these three individuals, and yet they were cleared.

[Lidge Farkley]

I am not trying to be a jerk, but it appears that you guys missed Particles post... or chose to ignore it.

If the concensus among the players in the server blames it on yoou three, then you should be willing to accept the consequences for your actions which were percieved as immoral or evil from other characters in the server.

As I see the situation, much of your clearing and complaining for being cleared rests on the other players in the server who were allegedly blaming you, and there appears to be more of them than you 3 all claiming it was you three.  Your moral standing with them may have influenced some of them to tell lies or expand the story beyond it's true limits, but that's because they felt they had something to fear or distrust about your 3 characters.  When this incident happened and you three happened to be the ones around mugging and targeting and carrying on (even if nobody dealt any blows after targetting) you should expect that the other players would team up against you because of your moral standing with them.

As far as I can tell, your characters were cleared because the other players of the server had a problem with your morality system in game and felt it was effecting their game play negatively and thus took a single inciminating looking screenshot with a testimony to the server controller.

In your defense you had nothing other than your word because your resputation with the majority of the effected players was negative.  Based on your actions you doomed yourselfes to be preyed upon by other seeking revenge for ill will they felt impacted them from you 3.  By no means should you feel the victim in this case, as they acted out of the moral stance that you were their enemy, they were your victim, and their screenshot showed in action the problems they felt you should be punished for.

As Particle says; Take it in stride, start a new character and playe a new.

I would reccomend not stealing or targeting or killing any tent blocked people as this could easily happen to you 3 again.

If you must steal, do it in the obscure... when they're not expecting it ("training" endurance maybe) or when they are not all ready in a compromised position such as a tent block or fighting with a casting uber.  Avoid confrontation like real thieves do; log off when you are targeted or shortly after you mug so they may forget you sooner if they notice, have a backup character if your main thief gets too "hot" for the server in recognition.

Play the thief character as if you were a thief, as if you would not like to be caught and would not like to be punished, like a true thief.

I still feel the best solution is not targeting and stealing from incapable players to begin with. ;-)

Peace!

[Silvanoshei]

How did I "choose to ignore Particle's post"? I addressed it directly. I can't see how much farther away from 'ignore' that could be.

Anyway, the idea of your post was that it was right for the people in the server to lie and accuse people whom they had no proof against. You can babble on about morals all you want; but what's moral about lying and accusing somebody of doing something they didn't? Eh? Stealing is legal, or did you miss that point? Just because the uneducated masses don't like it when they're stolen from, it does not give them the right to falsely accuse people that they have no information of.

As Particle has said many times before, this isn't a democracy. It's Particle's word. So why should this be the exception? Why should these players be cleared just because they're not liked? I don't like General, but should he be cleared? No.

Furthermore, what the hell do you expect them to have in defense? Should they be taking screenshots or demos of their activities, just in anticipation of being falsely accused? I should hope not, and that had better not be what you're suggesting.

Lastly, none of these players have been restored, none of the other suspects (being the entire server that night) were cleared, and the clears were not justified, which brings me back to a few posts ago. These players were cleared on a whim.

[Newbie]

How did I "choose to ignore Particle's post"? I addressed it directly. I can't see how much farther away from 'ignore' that could be.

Anyway, the idea of your post was that it was right for the people in the server to lie and accuse people whom they had no proof against. You can babble on about morals all you want; but what's moral about lying and accusing somebody of doing something they didn't? Eh? Stealing is legal, or did you miss that point? Just because the uneducated masses don't like it when they're stolen from, it does not give them the right to falsely accuse people that they have no information of.

As Particle has said many times before, this isn't a democracy. It's Particle's word. So why should this be the exception? Why should these players be cleared just because they're not liked? I don't like General, but should he be cleared? No.

Furthermore, what the hell do you expect them to have in defense? Should they be taking screenshots or demos of their activities, just in anticipation of being falsely accused? I should hope not, and that had better not be what you're suggesting.

Lastly, none of these players have been restored, none of the other suspects (being the entire server that night) were cleared, and the clears were not justified, which brings me back to a few posts ago. These players were cleared on a whim.

I <3 you Silv.  ;-)[/quote]

Are you trying to infer that I kill and steal from newbies?

Ask anyone on the server, I only house kill.. and I never steal from low levels (Unless they're above RL 10 and have good items on them).

To tell you the truth, I actually had quite a number of players that liked me.. Only the higher RL's didn't like me because I picked on them soley for the reason that they were more powerful than me (But I could out-duel them   ). But I guess their opinion is what matters to Particle. Ask anyone on the server.. if I stole from them and they asked for it back 85% of the time I would give it back (Depending on how rare the item)