Author Topic: Why is the murder rate in the US so high?  (Read 10248 times)

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Paradox666

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« Reply #15 on: December 2, 2003 08:39 am CST »
Quote from: "Silvanoshei"
I don't agree. Japan has roughly the same population as the US, in a much tighter area. On average, the US has 11,000 gun-related deaths every year. How many does Japan have? About thirty or forty. Food for thought, eh?


Its because we have more races....
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969 06:00 pm CST by Paradox666 »





Silvanoshei

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« Reply #16 on: December 2, 2003 09:46 am CST »
I didn't switch the topic. I only remembered the figures for gun deaths, not murders. So I mentioned it.

Anyway, the Japanese aren't that much different. Hell, most of these violent games you speak of come from Japan. Thier culture is very similar to America's in almost every way.

And why is it you believe that it is ethnicity conflict that causes the murders? In Canada, there is actually far more diversity and ethnicity than in America, yet we don't have this problem. And getting guns in Canada is not that hard, either. About 70% of Canadian homes have a gun, too.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969 06:00 pm CST by Silvanoshei »

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Paradox666

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« Reply #17 on: December 2, 2003 09:51 am CST »
I dunno then ..were just damn insane
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969 06:00 pm CST by Paradox666 »





Newbie

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« Reply #18 on: December 2, 2003 03:00 pm CST »
Quote from: "Newbie"
Larger population = more murders?


Not talking about population density.. though that might have something to do with it.

I'm saying the more people you have.. the more murders you'll have.

Look at China.. they have the largest population in the world; and they have alot of murders too..
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969 06:00 pm CST by Newbie »

LastWish

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« Reply #19 on: December 2, 2003 05:06 pm CST »
One word that is a huge influence on the murder rate in the US:

Media[/b]

If you don't agree, explain why you don't so I can punk you into the ground.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969 06:00 pm CST by LastWish »

neil

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« Reply #20 on: December 2, 2003 05:44 pm CST »
Quote from: "Darwin"
Because we niggaz down south of the C are tough mother fragglewert!


does the C stand for California?

i live in southern california, not many gangs here and the death rate isn't that high, probably 1 or 2 deaths around here a day. (I might be wrong)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969 06:00 pm CST by neil »


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« Reply #21 on: December 2, 2003 05:59 pm CST »
Quote from: "LastWish"
One word that is a huge influence on the murder rate in the US:

Media[/b]


Could you explain how the media directly affects the murder rate?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969 06:00 pm CST by Newbie »

Darwin

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« Reply #22 on: December 2, 2003 06:18 pm CST »
The C is Canada.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969 06:00 pm CST by Darwin »



Whitby

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« Reply #23 on: December 2, 2003 06:23 pm CST »
Quote from: "Darwin"
The C is Canada.

wow no wonder you have a post count of 4559
 :?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969 06:00 pm CST by Whitby »
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Silvanoshei

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« Reply #24 on: December 2, 2003 06:28 pm CST »
Quote from: "neil"
i live in southern california, not many gangs here and the death rate isn't that high, probably 1 or 2 deaths around here a day. (I might be wrong)


One or two deaths a day... not high? Are you out of your mind?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969 06:00 pm CST by Silvanoshei »

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Whitby

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« Reply #25 on: December 2, 2003 07:16 pm CST »
not realy, not in the area the size of CA
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969 06:00 pm CST by Whitby »
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LastWish

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« Reply #26 on: December 2, 2003 07:32 pm CST »
Quote from: "Newbie"
Quote from: "LastWish"
One word that is a huge influence on the murder rate in the US:

Media[/b]

Could you explain how the media directly affects the murder rate?


I have to go, but I didn't want to leave you in the dark on my views of the subject--this pretty much explains it, though.


Youth violence has been a very serious concern for many Americans over the past few decades.  This concern comes as a consequence of recent events such as the Columbine High School shooting spree and youth violence in general, which pervades itself throughout the country.  For example, although juvenile arrests have decreased from 1995-2000, there were 7,327 juvenile arrests (ages 10-17) for every 100,000 kids nationwide in 2000 (Office of Juvenile Justice & Delinquency Prevention).  This is a 7.3% incidence rate, which does not include criminal activity that does not lead to an arrest.  Although the etiology of youth violence is an extremely complex and multi-dimensional phenomenon, which goes way beyond the scope of this document, one particular correlate of youth violence is believed to be many current media outlets.
 

This report is intended to illustrate that (1) media has a strong affect on youth and (2) irresponsible media outlets may contribute to poor developmental outcomes of children and encourage illegal behavior in both children and adults.  Specifically, this report will (1) provide information that will support the argument that media has a strong influence on youth (and adults) and (2) indicate why supporting or promoting artists who encourage illegal and immoral acts (i.e. dog fighting) through the media may increase ones propensity to commit illegal acts in general.

 

The Influence of Media on American Youth

 

Although one cannot ascertain a causal relationship between media and subsequent behavior, several studies have indicated that a strong and true relationship does exist.  For example, a field study conducted by Tannis MacBeth Williams (1973) examined children in a Canadian town before and after the town had television.  The researcher found that within two years, not only did creativity drop, but also rates of hitting, shoving and biting among first and second graders increased by 160%.  Furthermore, in a cross-sectional study, Centerwall examined murder rates in the Unites States, Canada and South Africa after the introduction of television.  After 10-15 years, in all three countries, murder rates doubled.  Centerwall explained that the 10-15 year lag was due to the fact that it took the first generation of kids watching television to become of age.

            Leland, John & Murr, Andrew (1995).  Violence, reel to real.  Newsweek, 126 (24), p. 46.

 

In another Newsweek article, mention was made of a Newsweek Poll in which 78% of the respondents said that violence in the media deserved some or a lot of the blame for the recent mass shootings.  

            Leland, John; Brown, Corie; Gordon, Devin; Samuels, Allison; Miller, Mark (1999). A Lower Body Count.  Newsweek, 134 (8), p. 46.

 

Furthermore, according to U.S. News & World Report (5/9/94) in their article A kinder, gentler Hollywood, a survey administered indicated that many top-level Hollywood figures feel a sense of responsibility about the influence violence in entertainment is having on American society.

Guttman, Monika (1994). A kinder, gentler Hollywood. U.S. News & World Report, 116 (18), p. 38.

 

An example of the way in which media incites violence is the case of the Jenny Jones program.  A $25 million civil judgment was filed against the program for provoking a guest into murdering another guest on the show.  In this particular case, the judge and jury awarded the money to the plaintiff, therefore indicating that the jury believed beyond reasonable doubt that the Jenny Jones show was the cause of the man being shot.

Leo, John (1999). The devil with Ms. Jones.  U.S. News & World Report, 126 (20), p. 17.

 

Another example is a case in which a Supreme Court allowed a suit to proceed against Oliver Stone by a family of a convenience-store clerk who was shot and seriously wounded in a spree that was intended to mimic the movie Natural Born Killers.

            Leo, John (1999). The devil with Ms. Jones.  U.S. News & World Report, 126 (20), p. 17.

 

My final argument rests with a joint initiative between the American Psychological Association and MTV titled the Warning Signs initiative.  This initiative was created to help prevent youth violence.  Both parties therefore acknowledge that youth violence is a serious concern in todays society.  In the article, it is stated that MTV certainly had the attention of an audience-adolescents-that APA could not access on its own.  Furthermore, this effort was deemed to have been highly successful.  In fact, MTV reported that the Warning Signs documentary was the highest rated prosocial special in its history.  Approximately 3.9 million youth had viewed the film.  Therefore, if MTV can reach and affect millions of youth with an educational and prosocial message, than why cant we conclude that they can also reach and affect millions of youth with their irresponsible and immoral messages?

            Peterson, Jan & Newman, Russ (2000). Helping to Curb Youth Violence: The APA-MTV Warning Signs Initiative.  Professional Psychology: Research and Practice, 31 (5), 509-514.

 

Current Media Content:  A look at MTV

 

I have recently learned, which is to my dismay, that MTV has been glamorizing the illegal act of dog fighting by showing videos and programs that feature artists who blatantly, as well as discretely, encourage the significantly cruel phenomenon of dog fighting.  Not only are these artists promoting dog fighting, but many of them also have rap sheets (and I am not talking about rap music) indicating that they have been previously arrested and convicted for misdemeanors and or felonies.  These are not the type of people that we should be portraying as role models for our youth.  Nor are the behaviors that they endorse acceptable for any one of any age to practice.

 

The Relationship between Media Content and Subsequent Behavior of Children & Adults

 

I have provided arguments and examples above to support my hypothesis that the media has an affect (influence) on youth.  I have also indicated that the media (i.e. MTV) has a propensity to show videos and programs that feature artists who promote illegal behavior; specifically, dog fighting.  So what?!  Why is this practice a problem?  This is a very serious problem because there is a strong relationship between animal cruelty and criminal behavior in general.  Therefore not only are our children witnessing these acts of animal cruelty, but they are also encouraged to conduct themselves in a similar fashion.  So, not only will many of these children go on to hurt animals, but those who are conditioned to be cruel to animals, tend to be a problem to society in general.

 

There is an abundance of research that overwhelmingly links animal abuse to other types of criminal behavior.  For example Arluke, Levin, Luke & Ascione (1999) published an article titled The Relationship of Animal Abuse to Violence and Other Forms of Antisocial Behavior in the Journal of Interpersonal Violence, which indicates that there is an association between animal abuse and a variety of antisocial behaviors.  I mention this article in particular because its methodology was very robust and the findings, I believe, are based on highly reliable and valid sources of data.  

            Arluke, Arnold; Levin, Jack; Luke, Carter; Ascione, Frank (1999).  The Relationship of Animal Abuse to Violence and Other Forms of Antisocial Behavior.  Journal of Interpersonal Violence, 14 (9), 963-975.

 

In the interest of time and to keep this report brief, I will not mention every article that I have discovered.  I will however, direct you to a highly comprehensive and scholarly document that reflects the recent work of Frank Ascione.  This document can be viewed in its entirety by clicking on the following link: http://www.ncjrs.org/html/ojjdp/jjbul20 ... tents.html

 

In my own work, I have looked at the differences between children (2 year-old children) who are cruel to animals, sometimes cruel to animals and never cruel to animals with regard to their Child Behavior Checklist ratings, which were provided by their mothers and fathers. The Child Behavior Checklist for Ages 2-3 (CBCL) developed by Achenbach (1988) specifically asks if the persons child is cruel to animals in which the person is requested to indicate how true the statement is for his or her child (0 = not true; 1 = somewhat or sometimes true; and 2 = very true or often true).  In this case the childs behavior towards animals is considered to be a valid indicator of behavioral problems which later tend to turn into conduct disorder in the teen years and antisocial disorder in the adult years.


Conclusions

 

Based on the empirical findings of previous research, expressed public opinion, and my own personal research, I am very confident in my conclusion that (1) the American media has a strong and direct influence on American youth; (2) negative behavioral displays in the media will encourage youth to copy cat or emulate such behavior; (3) much of this negative behavior includes illegal dog fighting and cruelty to animals in general and (4) cruelty to animals is highly and directly related to other types of criminal activity.  Based on my conclusions, I urge you to please reconsider the types of artists that you feature via your videos and programs.  I applaud your efforts with regard to your initiative with the American Psychological Association, and I hope that you do not undue all of the hard work that has been done by promoting and or featuring artists that glamorize illegal, immoral and criminal acts to youth who are so eager to emulate these disgusting role models.

http://www.ncaresonline.org/Reporttoacc ... letter.htm
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969 06:00 pm CST by LastWish »

Silvanoshei

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« Reply #27 on: December 2, 2003 10:16 pm CST »
Hmm. That article has the needlessly sesquipedalian and bad taste of essay. Yuck. Anyway, I agree that television is a leading factor of crime and murders. But, it wasn't specific to the US. There's television in Japan, is there not? But, if you may contest Japan's similarity to the US, then what about Canada? Canada watches the same movies, plays the same games, and watches the same television that the US does. So why the phenomenally higher murder rate south of the forty-ninth parallel?

Here's another question, should we be so inclined to discuss two in one topic: Why are humans, speaking from a psychological or perhaps even biological perspective, so attracted to violence or suffering? The only reason this damaging media is allowed to remain on the air is because it sells. Damn well, too. So what is it about human nature that finds suffering so fascinating?

Oh, and I insist that one or two murders a day is a lot. That's more than the entirety of Canada. Speaking of which, I had my figures wrong, as well. For the worse. America has, on average, 35,000+ gun murders per year. That's... sick.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969 06:00 pm CST by Silvanoshei »

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Lidge Farkley

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« Reply #28 on: December 3, 2003 12:12 am CST »
I didn't really get a response to one of my comments...

Perhaps the belief structure has some thing to do with it as well?  Perhaps the way children are raised?  The laws involved in regulating people?  The way people respond to living the way they think they want to live because "by god this is a free country"?  There are so many factors and this small gathering hardly does it justice.

If you're going the "fear" way like mr. Bowling for Columbine then I cannot agree.  That is only one factor and what murderer has killed for the sake of fear?  Hardly makes sense... murdering in fear.

Of course, you also did not cite your sources (with links [prefered] or names) to the "America has, on average, 35,000+ gun murders per year" 'factoid'.  :-/  You may have just made this up, or read it on a propaganda page, but we would not know unless you gave a few links to the places you read it and the studies that were used to collect the data and would thus have no justified reason to believe your post.  You also said murder.  That's quite a lot of murders for no citation.  "America" is a huuuuge place spanning from Chile to Canada, so how would we know which specific part you are talking about?

Of all I come back to my first lame-brain-idea that got no response;
"You might want to take in to account that the number of murders or gun related deaths will vary from country to country due to other reasons such as; Documentation or Classification practices involving the dissapearance of some one or the witness of their death."  -for all we know the near-true numbers may be lost because documentation of death may vary from country to country.


I think that before you jump on LWs' case (or any one else) you should re-think all your question asking and say exactly what you want the first time.  People seem to be responding in all kinds of ways and none seem to be what you are looking for.  As I wrote this post I ragarded myself as writing it with no ill intent, so if I offended you at all I am sorry.  (just covering the bases in case I said some thing silly :-p)

*edited to add:*
I just read LWs' post, and it looks like the kind of crap I would find on darwinawards.com forums (precisely the reason I stopped visiting there) in that it is written with the "holier than though I am right and you have to agree because I say so" over tone.  All though there are some good points with in all the crappy writing, most people would not give it the time of day more than a few flames right back due to its obviously flame-bait-ridden style.  I don't blame you for being caustic as it is the natural reaction (hey... I agree with a bunch of stuff they wrote, but god damn they need to learn how to communicate with people who WON'T agree with them, so they can at least try to convince rather than to snobify the subject) but I do think LW was just making a quick stop on her ideas with some one elses words.  Soooo.... maybe you didn't jump on her case, so I take that back some what... heh.

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« Last Edit: December 31, 1969 06:00 pm CST by Lidge Farkley »
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Silvanoshei

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« Reply #29 on: December 3, 2003 01:47 pm CST »
This isn't some high-strung official debate. It's a discussion. You don't have to cite your sources, and you don't have to reprimand people for using slang. America means the United States. In common speech, no one says it to mean anything else. "Oh, I meant Canada." It doesn't work this way. Furthermore, there is no need for statistical accuracies for every different type of murder viewed by every defintion from every census. You want statistical accuracy? There are a lot of fuggin' murders in the US, and we're talking about why. That's it.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969 06:00 pm CST by Silvanoshei »

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