Author Topic: Graphics Card Help!  (Read 4604 times)

0 Members and 4 Guests are viewing this topic.

LastWish

  • What's Yours?
  • Uber Menace
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,743
  • Reputation: +0/-0
Graphics Card Help!
« on: December 20, 2003 10:43 am CST »
Ok, don't reply unless you know what your talking about.

I'm going to buy a new graphics card for christmas, and I want to know which of these is the best choice for the price.

ATI Radeon 9600 PRO 128 DDR

ATI Radeon 9600 PRO 256 DDR (200 less memory speed than 128 at 400)

ATI Radeon 9600 XT 128 DDR (100 MORE core speed than PRO 128 at 500)

The main question Im asking here is what is more important--256 DDR over 128, or the core/memory speed of the memory?  Is the 256 DDR worth it by sacrificing the core/memory speed?

Thanks for any and all help =)
« Last Edit: December 20, 2003 11:07 am CST by LastWish »

Quaduce

  • b4nz0r3d!!!
  • Undead Hero
  • ****
  • Posts: 306
  • Reputation: +0/-0
(No subject)
« Reply #1 on: December 20, 2003 10:51 am CST »
Depends on the exact price you can get these cards at. And it also depends on your system specs, if you have a  high end system, any dx9 capable card will be fine.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969 06:00 pm CST by Quaduce »
My cock is rated E for everyone.

LastWish

  • What's Yours?
  • Uber Menace
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,743
  • Reputation: +0/-0
(No subject)
« Reply #2 on: December 20, 2003 10:55 am CST »
Any dx9 compatible?  I don't think so..  I'm not gonna go out and buy a malarkeyty low end card when I already have a geforce 2 64 meg in there which is dx9 compatible if I'm not mistaken.

My system specs are:

p4 2ghz
256 RD ram (I think its RD, isn't that what p4's use?)
Win XP

At any rate, I want to know what the best of those 3 cards is--not just a generic "any dx9 compatible card"..

All of these cards are between 155 and 170, so price isn't a factor--I'm talking about how good the card is for recent games.  Mainly it will be used for Lineage 2 when it comes out in the US, and its a pretty system heavy game.  I played the korean version of Lineage 2 and it ran decently on my GF2, but it definately ran quite slow at some parts, and I don't want that.  I also got invited for the closed beta of Lineage 2 in the US!  (just now, in my email haha) so I want to make sure I can run it well.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969 06:00 pm CST by LastWish »

Quaduce

  • b4nz0r3d!!!
  • Undead Hero
  • ****
  • Posts: 306
  • Reputation: +0/-0
(No subject)
« Reply #3 on: December 20, 2003 11:45 am CST »
Any dx9 card will own your gf2. I had an oc'ed gf3ti200, it burned out and i got a gf fx5600. People were all saying how i got screwed, how it was a malarkeyty dx9 card. But it performs alot better than my gf3 in all aspects. Runs XMP great because of the 250 ram (my gf3 had 64) and the anti aliasing hardly efffects performance unless i put it above 4x. And its a 8x agp card and im running it at 4x agp cuz thats the highest my mobo suports.

So even if you got the malarkeytyest dx9 capable card, it will probbly perform twice as good as your gf2 (depending on wich one u have). And on a 2 gig + system, youll be able to run every game out there. No garentee on Lineage 2 since its a mmorpg, and i dont think any system out there would not lag on a game like that when your standing around like 50+ people in a town w/ maxed setting.

In any case, out of those cards the 9600XT is the best. The XT is hardly a noticable difference better between the pro from what iv seen. A range between 5-15 fps at most difference between the cards. Unless you get the XT w/ overdrive, then youll notice a difference, plus be paying a higher price.

http://www.sharkyextreme.com
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969 06:00 pm CST by Quaduce »
My cock is rated E for everyone.

LastWish

  • What's Yours?
  • Uber Menace
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,743
  • Reputation: +0/-0
(No subject)
« Reply #4 on: December 20, 2003 12:47 pm CST »
What about the GeForce line?  Would I be better off getting a GF instead of an ATI card?  Lineage 2's official sponsor is geforce, after all..  but from what I hear ATI is becoming the better choice.  For like 150-170, should I go for geforce or ATI?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969 06:00 pm CST by LastWish »

Darwin

  • Centurian Lord
  • ********
  • Posts: 6,466
  • Reputation: +0/-0
    • http://www.mierda54.tripod.com
(No subject)
« Reply #5 on: December 20, 2003 02:48 pm CST »
Quote from: "Quaduce"
Any dx9 card will own your gf2...



Funny how a geforce2 GTS outperforms my crappy GeforceFX 5200 pro (a dx9 card).  Plus, the Geforce3 line is not a DX9 card.  Nor are the Geforce4 line of cards DX9.

The AGP speed (4x or 8x) really doesnt matter, because that isnt the bottleneck.

You will know if you have RD RAM if the computer doesnt work if you leave one RAM slot open.  Computers with RD ram will not function with an open RAM slot.  (RDRam is expensive).

Go for the 9600 Pro 256 since it can actually use all that memory.  Alot of cards released today come with alot of memory (like my GeforceFX 5200 pro <128>), but they dont have enough bandwidth to actually use it.  Strange, eh?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969 06:00 pm CST by Darwin »



Blink

  • Elvin Legion
  • *****
  • Posts: 409
  • Reputation: +0/-0
    • http://www.black-goat.com
(No subject)
« Reply #6 on: December 20, 2003 03:26 pm CST »
ATI Radeon 9600 XT
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969 06:00 pm CST by Blink »

-eViL-

  • Minotaur Rager
  • ******
  • Posts: 880
  • Reputation: +0/-0
(No subject)
« Reply #7 on: December 20, 2003 04:26 pm CST »
i tried a 9600 pro 128mb in my brothers computer, wasn't overly fantastic.  then i popped in a 9600XT 128mb and it was like "holy malarkey" because its just that much better for performance wise.

9600 pro overclocked = 9600XT = low end 9800 = damn good.

i have tried my share of GF cards in misc computers but none of them can really stand up to the ATI cards.  overall, the average clock speeds of all the ATI's are much higher than the GF's and hence you don't really need more memory to make it better.

and as Darwin said, the GF 3 and 4 lines are not DX9 cards, the GF FX cards are DX9 cards.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969 06:00 pm CST by -eViL- »
There's nothing ever wrong but nothing's ever right
Such a cruel contradiction

LastWish

  • What's Yours?
  • Uber Menace
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,743
  • Reputation: +0/-0
(No subject)
« Reply #8 on: December 20, 2003 06:01 pm CST »
Quote from: "Darwin"
Quote from: "Quaduce"
Any dx9 card will own your gf2...


Funny how a geforce2 GTS outperforms my crappy GeforceFX 5200 pro (a dx9 card).  Plus, the Geforce3 line is not a DX9 card.  Nor are the Geforce4 line of cards DX9.

The AGP speed (4x or 8x) really doesnt matter, because that isnt the bottleneck.

You will know if you have RD RAM if the computer doesnt work if you leave one RAM slot open.  Computers with RD ram will not function with an open RAM slot.  (RDRam is expensive).

Go for the 9600 Pro 256 since it can actually use all that memory.  Alot of cards released today come with alot of memory (like my GeforceFX 5200 pro <128>), but they dont have enough bandwidth to actually use it.  Strange, eh?


The 256 has a slower memory speed..  I don't think I need any more than 128 and I don't want to sacrifice 33% of my memory speed for a card that just has a bigger number on the end of it.  I'm fairly sure I'm getting the XT 128, simply because I don't think I need any more than that and I would benifit from the higher memory speed.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969 06:00 pm CST by LastWish »

Darwin

  • Centurian Lord
  • ********
  • Posts: 6,466
  • Reputation: +0/-0
    • http://www.mierda54.tripod.com
(No subject)
« Reply #9 on: December 20, 2003 06:43 pm CST »
Sorry I must have gotten my signals crossed then.  Its been awhile since I looked at graphics cards.

*edit*
You're right.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969 06:00 pm CST by Darwin »



Quaduce

  • b4nz0r3d!!!
  • Undead Hero
  • ****
  • Posts: 306
  • Reputation: +0/-0
(No subject)
« Reply #10 on: December 20, 2003 08:01 pm CST »
Man 5200 is just garbage. But its a nvidia not ATI. I recall when i went for over the counter exchange for my gf3ti200 they tryed to give me the 5200 and i got rank pissed off.

The 9600 XT is just all round great card and is very affordable. But i wouldnt hold my breath for it, the pro 256 is almost as good imo.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969 06:00 pm CST by Quaduce »
My cock is rated E for everyone.

-eViL-

  • Minotaur Rager
  • ******
  • Posts: 880
  • Reputation: +0/-0
(No subject)
« Reply #11 on: December 20, 2003 08:01 pm CST »
*cough*bullmalarkey*cough*
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969 06:00 pm CST by -eViL- »
There's nothing ever wrong but nothing's ever right
Such a cruel contradiction

Darwin

  • Centurian Lord
  • ********
  • Posts: 6,466
  • Reputation: +0/-0
    • http://www.mierda54.tripod.com
(No subject)
« Reply #12 on: December 20, 2003 09:36 pm CST »
I got the 5200 because my "friend" promised me I would get much better performance out of it than my Geforce3.  Like a dumbass, I bought it without checking specs.  Hell, I shoulda seen the signs when it came with a passive heatsink instead of a fan.   :cry:
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969 06:00 pm CST by Darwin »



Lidge Farkley

  • Uber Menace
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,357
  • Reputation: +2/-3
    • http://www.angelfire.com/ca2/psychosworld2/
(No subject)
« Reply #13 on: December 21, 2003 03:25 am CST »
Quote
The main question Im asking here is what is more important--256 DDR over 128, or the core/memory speed of the memory? Is the 256 DDR worth it by sacrificing the core/memory speed?


Memory bandwidth is more important than memory size right now.  Even in the future, the speed of the transfer will make a larger difference in performance compared to the ammount of ram your card has.

You want a higher clock speed, higher bit rate (128 is prime right now) and 128 MB of ram.

No consumer grade product out there can use the 256MB of ram effectively... and because the bandwidth is slow, not many professional programs can use the bandwidth to any advantage either.

You best option of the above choices is the Radeon 9600 XT, though, if you want to get a fair graphic detail rating... .you might want the nVidia's 5950 card by MSI... the tests look excellent, but it is damn expensive.  The current drivers for the ATI 9000+ series (and some of the earlier ones too alegedly) have a driver work around that is similar to what nVidia used to do to make their FPS higher; lower over all graphics detail per rendered scene.  nVidia used this tactic in their drivers to drop over layed frames from their card renderings of ellaborate explosions and effects to bankrup 3dfx's line of competitive cards (which had a visual performance edge over the GF and GF 2 series of cards... probably the GF3's too... even though they had a slower FPS rate.)

The reason your GF2 may appear to out-do your FX 5200, Darwin, may have to do with the drivers the GF2 is using, as well as the finer details of your FX 5200.  From what I have read, there are many versions of the FX 5200, some of them using "flip-chip" technology.  This flip-chip technology actually is much slower for the transfer rates and allegedly makes more mistakes than the refined true chips of the true FX 5200.  I don't know how to identify the difference other than manufacutre version... and even then, I had to research quite a bit to find my info before buying my MSI FX 5200.

Now, back to the Issue of the rendering of detail layers in effects;
After ATI (who was behind in the market at the time) accused nVidia of modifying drivers to drop renderings from detailed effects, nVidia made a new standard to which they held their drivers and cards as far as detail rendering.  All of their new cards and drivers have been checked and do show to be rendering all of the detail levels of the advanced effects in a game scene.  BUT, the new ATI drivers have also been shown to drop detail levels and over layed effects from advanced scenes and effects.  There are a whole 2 or 3 pages about it at THG (link at end of post) in the comparrison between the "top cards" right now.  ATI has admitted that "the dirvers are not finished yet" and "the current drivers do not fully reflect the full capability of the card."  This is the same line nVidia gave when they were accused (and rightly so) of the very same thing ATI is now doing.

nVidia is losing it's competative edge on the market (slowly but seemingly surely) so I purchased an nVidia card, rather than an ATI card.

I want to see all of the details in a game that I buy, and so I opted for the "slower FPS" card of the affordable choice; the MSI nVidia FX 5200 VTD128.

The next step up (which I think is much better) is the MSI nVidia FX 5600 VTDR128  (or is it VTD128?  I forget.)

-If you want your full detail, opt for an nVidia.
-If you want better FPS at 2100x1600 resolutions, opt for the ATI 9600 128 XT.

Personally I chose nVidia.  I hated the fact that they killed 3dfx, but I hate even more the fact that ATI is pulling the same thing that nVidia did on 3dfx.

FPS do not matter if the frames are not in full glorious detail... but that is just what I think... as I want to see all of what the game designers spent years composing.

Be warned, nvidia does have less fps at high resolution than radeon at high resolution.  What resolution are you running at?  Choose your card based on your resolution and the detail you want.  Those are the keys.

Other than that, the most important thing to understand is that 256MB is just a marketing ploy!  They have all this extra RAM that won't be on their future cards, and they need to get rid of it.  Add it to a fast chip with a slower clock rate and ther eye go.... and people will buy it because it has more RAM, not for it's true speed.  It's similar to AMD saying "buy the 64 bit processor for the future."  That makes no sense; in the future, any chip that is made now will cost less when a 64 bit windows OS comes out.  Why buy now and waste that cash if you don't have a 64 bit OS running?  hm... marketing.

Don't buy the gimick.  Stay with 128MB and 128bit.

Peace.

Any thing I said above can be confirmed with:
http://www.tomshardware.com
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969 06:00 pm CST by Lidge Farkley »
Lend your heart unto the divine mineral TOPAZ;
from which our reverent hearts and minds sprang.
Also Known As:  Alcoholic 007
My Page of tribes Tools and Helpful "FAQ" Stuff

UnderGod

  • Centurian Lord
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,691
  • Reputation: +0/-0
(No subject)
« Reply #14 on: December 21, 2003 10:23 am CST »
Ti4200 overall is better than any card up to the FX5900 and the 9600 Pro

Not to mention it is a good buy for the money. Granted this is only true with a nice amound of pc3500 and at least a XP 2500. But still
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969 06:00 pm CST by UnderGod »
"The right man in the wrong place can make all the difference in the world"