[News Discussion] A Form of Flattery

[Urocyon]

Heyello there.... Yeah, this is Urocyon, a.k.a GreyPaws from Raven's RPG Under Construction server, and I'll tell you why we changed the name soon.

"When did people wanting to host stop making up original names and just start copying me? Rarely does something ever make me angry, but this situation is. Three other people have totally stolen my server name--that I've used as an original for five years now--and just slapped their name on it instead."

The word "stolen" is a bit dramatic in describing what Raven did when it came to naming the server. "Custom" is a very common adjective... the kind that sticks with ya. I use it a lot, especially when I'm talking to people about different game dev ideas: "Custom ship designs," "customized characters," "fully customizable profiles." See? Works on so many levels. Raven's intent was not to copy your server name. She was simply describing the type of server she was hosting. She wanted to mod the server. She has a lot of good ideas too, none of which, by the way, are your ideas. Thus, the word "custom" comes to mind. And as many times as she sees it on other servers of ALL kinds, don't you think it would have maintained some presence in her mind?

Another important point to make is that nothing on our server is like your server. We don't have a "ghettozone," whatever the heck that is. I don't know what other features you have on your server, but I can assure you that I have not played on your server long enough to spy on your work and send the information first-class back to my superiors who are eagerly awaiting a response.

"Something needs to be done about this, but to whom can I turn?"

Why didn't you turn to us? We're reasonable people. If you had asked us, in a sensible manner, to change the server, we would have done it. Although you don't own the word "Custom," I totally understand. Who wants their server surrounded by a mass of clones? But instead of coming to our server just once and talking to us about it, you decide to post it on this board instead, asking for ideas on how to solve this problem. Two things wrong with this. First, it insults us. What are we? Savages? We can't talk this out in a reasonable manner? Second, this could ultimately lead to someone saying, "Hey, I've got an idea. HACKERS! ." That leads me to ask you what this whole "Pwnzered by Focus" thing is about. I saw both Brave's and Paradox's server hacked by Focus using a no-name account. And the other day, the NPC's stopped functioning on Raven's server. Now maybe you have something to do with this and maybe you don't. All I know is that Focus is a regular on your server.

"This is another case of the Internet's safe harbor for those that deserve it least."

Deserve it least? What the heck is that supposed to mean? What did we ever do to you? A simple mistake and you have to go extreme. PEVERTS, MINDLESS HACKERS, ONLINE PREDATORS, these are the type of people who "deserve it least." If you treat the players on your server the same way you have treated us, it's a wonder it lasted 5 years. I'm sorry if that offends you, but it just amazes me that a simple mistake we make leads you to the conclusion that we have less of a right to access this server than the world's worst child molestor.

"It's always the good guy who gets the shaft--always the bad guy who gets away."

You just described my entire life. I'm stuck in a trailer park, waiting to get on with my life which seems near impossible right now, because of all the stuff the "bad guys" put me and my family through. I'm well aware of how life works out for the good guy. Being a good samaritan didn't get me anywhere. But, I still manage to treat people like human beings and excercise my beliefs as to how a Christian should treat people. Stealing people's work kinda contradicts those moral values, don't you think?

"Really, nada you can do about it. I would say accept the compliment and just run them out of business. Being this new, they seriously wont last."

Oh well thank you so much, Evil_inc. I hope your server turns out to be a success too. U.U

"Then again, you could always try to contact the server owners and ask them directly what is up or add to your name "original" or some such."

Now that's a better idea, Evil. Try contacting us and then asking about the whole issue with the server name, and maybe then you can observe how we run things and realize we're not running a "business" or trying to compete with you guys. We're merely trying to host a fun, friendly server without getting hacked or having DoS attacks sprung on us every half hour.

"It's really insulting that people are trying to leech off of my success by copying my server name, my features, etc."

Nooooo, Particle, what's insulting is what you said right there. You make it sound like we're a bunch of worthless scavengers incabable of coming up with an original idea of our own. THAT is insulting. How about looking into it further before smearing our reputation before we even get a chance to build up a reputation to begin with? In fact, that's one of the reasons I came to this board to set things straight. We don't need people coming to your board, reading this, and then attributing every single thing we do to ripping it off from someone else.

"On a good note, ParaDoX decided to change his server's name after my postings today. He's a really reasonable guy--I respect that."

Not to diminish your opinion of Para, but I haven't even seen his server up lately. I guess he got fed up with, oh, I dunno, people hacking his server maybe. I have noticed that he's been hosting an Annihilation server though. And, as I've probably mentioned before, if you had simply given us half the chance, you would have learned that we're pretty reasonable as well.

"Can you believe this? They rip me off and have the balls to pretend that I'm in the wrong for calling them out on it. This is absurd."

There are a few other things you said that I didn't respond to, mostly because I'm tired of repeating myself. But, I felt it necessary to make one thing clear in response to this. You didn't call us on anything. You posted this on a public board for everyone to see but us. We could have settled this privately and reasonably. But, like I've said, you wouldn't even give us a chance.

Now, what I'm sure you've all been waiting for, the closing....

Particle, I can honestly say that we (that is, I, Raven, and everyone else on Raven's server) never intended to steal your work, steal your fame, steal your players, steal anything of any kind, leach off your server's status, annoy you or those on your server, or in any way, directly or indirectly, associate our server with your's. We just wanted to host a fun, simple server, mod it, and see what we can come up with. We have no intention of stealing your ideas or you work, either. Heck, I don't even know enough about your server to know what to steal. We also have no intention of making your server look bad or making our's look better than your's. This isn't a dang competition with us.

We changed the server name right now because we're tearing this whole mod apart and trying to add some more structure to it. That means profiles will most likely be deleted, and glitches will occur. But when we get this mod to look half-decent, I'm pretty sure we won't even entertain the thought of putting the word "custom" anywhere in our title. The last thing we need is another version of this humiliation.

You have insulted us, and you have insulted our efforts to maintain a friendly, neutral atmosphere on our server. Had you simply taken a few minutes to come to our server and let us know how much this offends you, instead of dragging our names through mud, we'd be back to whatever it was we were doing, I'd be working on patching up some holes in this mod instead of writing this horribly long post, and we all would have been a lot better off. None of us on Raven's server have even really noted the link between the name of your server and the name of ours. That's how common the word "custom" is. We didn't mean to upset anyone, much less sound unoriginal by copying someone else's name.

I know I must sound incredibly rude, mean-spirited, and sarcastic here. I usually am like that when a sense of righteous indignation hits me. I think we have a right to be angry about this. We're good, decent people. We're not some hopeless idiots incapable of rationally discussing a simple issue like a name change.

Frankly, I think you owe Raven and the rest of the people on her server an apology. But, I know that won't happen. In fact, I'm pretty sure our server is going to get hacked again, as usual. Becuase that's the way it is, isn't it Particle? The good guys always get the shaft. Well, in any case, let it be known that while I'm angry about the way you've treated us, I in no way hold any feelings of hatred towards you or the members of your server. We're sincerely sorry if our server title offended you. We mean that. And, if we had just known earlier about this, we would have done something about it. We just feel that we are entitled to at least know what we did wrong and have a chance to solve the problem before we have our smallest mistakes posted for the whole world to see.

Anyways, I hope this issue can be handled in a better way than I think it's going to be handled. I'm not sure what's going to happen. I just want everything to be the way it should be... us hosting an undisturbed server and no one holding back ill feelings about us. That's all I have to say on the matter.

Good night, and God bless.

[Taurik]

I do not speak for PCRPG or Particle, but I felt I had to say this anyway:

Although your post does not come right out and say so, it does seem to imply that Particle or PCRPG itself was responsible for the "hacking." That's a pretty big piece of assholery, don't you think?

[Urocyon]

If there were such a word, that's exactly how I thought you guys would think of it. But maybe you can explain to me why two servers with the word "custom" in it were hacked within the same half hour by the same guy, the guy who seems to be a regular on Particle's server and who some of you guys, apparently, know very well. I don't have the facts, that's why I didn't come out and say it. In fact I said I didn't know. I said that Particle could have something to do with it, then again he probably doesn't. It could just be that Focus is went on a random attack. I'll leave it up to him to tell me what really happened.

In any case, that's not the main issue here, is it? I'm talking about why he didn't bother to tell us anything, but thought it necessary to tell everyone who isn't involved what incredible frauds he thinks we are.

[Particle]

I can understand why they might think so, however it does become a bit ironic when presumption is exactly what they are upset with me about. That much aside, however, I do appreciate the post.

After reading your side to the story, I do understand where you are coming from. Additionally, I don't recall actually naming anybody's server in my rant. I had a picture of all the "____'s Custom RPG" servers and expressed my discontent. I don't think it's any more reasonable to deny my being upset about what I perceived to be blatant leeching (believe it or not, it's happened dozens of times over the years--hard to stay open to other possibilities after that long) than it is to deny yours.

At this point, I think it is important for me to point out that I did not contact any server owners about this subject. I was upset with it but I had no intentions of making a big deal out of it in the public TRPG community. Please note that this topic has only appeared on the domain that is for my server alone. I did not broadcast this message. I only shared it with the members of my gaming community. This is not the official TRPG website, despite its greater popularity. You make it seem like I was shouting it from the roof tops. I did not.

In reference to insulting your server, I feel I did not. I simply complained about the name. References to stolen content have been taken out of context in your compilation--that was in regards to Sinister's server (who has since purged his server of the mimicked content).

So, while I see you are clearly angry, I do think some of it is misplaced.

I am not in the business of hacking people's servers. Hell, I've been known to share patches with other server owners when they ask. Of course, I guess I'm just the evil guy trying to destroy your server instead of the guy who would have gladly given you patches to stop most of your problems. I've been in this business a long time. You don't get this far by being an unreasonable, malicious dick.

This does not mean my right to express discontent has been nullified.  It seems you would rather I do not possess that right from your reply.

Judging by your response, I really don't think I owe much of an apology. You did more insinuating and made more presumptions than I did even. However, I will admit that I did not investigate the case with your server deeply enough. You must understand though--people do copy my server name on a near-regular basis for a variety of reasons...usually to a) get passwords or b) use my server's continued popularity as a means to launch their own servers. I am quite glad to hear that your server doesn't fall under these categories. I am also glad to hear you've decided to use a different name in your future TRPG adventures. Back when I put this server up, nobody used "X's Custom RPG". That was new with the introduction of my server. Since then, there have been many. You can surely understand what conclusions that would lead me to on a general basis. If you want to see what servers there were when mine was young, take a look for yourself at this page.

I look forward to dealing with you in the future. Hopefully it won't be under such presumptions of evildoing.

[Urocyon]

"Additionally, I don't recall actually naming anybody's server in my rant. I had a picture of all the "____'s Custom RPG" servers and expressed my discontent."

If I had come from Brave's server, or Para's server, would you have said the same thing? Our server name was listed there. You complained about the word "custom." How in the world are we supposed to think, "Oh, well it must just be coinicidence that our server is listed there?"

"I was upset with it but I had no intentions of making a big deal out of it in the public TRPG community. Please note that this topic has only appeared on the domain that is for my server alone."

You don't get it. Type in a few admin commands in google, or a few DIS names. Your forum, along with maybe 3-4 other websites, that's all that comes up. Regardles of whether the domain was for your server alone, that doesn't mean that ONLY the people who play on your server come to your board. It's not like this is some password-protected server.

"I am not in the business of hacking people's servers. Hell, I've been known to share patches with other server owners when they ask. Of course, I guess I'm just the evil guy trying to destroy your server instead of the guy who would have gladly given you patches to stop most of your problems. I've been in this business a long time. You don't get this far by being an unreasonable, malicious d***."

Once again, let me make this as clear as I possibly can. Focus is a regular on your server. HE hacked the server, I'm sure it wasn't you. And honestly, you can get anywhere being malicious and unreasonable. That's how lawyers, crooked real-estate agents, crooked judges, doctors, and yes, even a preacher, got ahead by stepping over my family and robbing us blind. If life has taught me anything, it's that the people you're supposed to trust most, are the ones you should be most suspicious of. I don't know who you are. Like I've said before, I DO NOT KNOW whether you had anything to do with it or not. That's why I didn't come out and say, "Particle, call off your hackers. We surrender." But I'm willing to bet that you could tell me who the heck Focus is and what right he thinks he has to hack our servers.

I've told what I know about this.... our server is being hacked. And the hack on Brave's and Para's server wasn't but maybe a week ago, not long after this post was made. Now, Pwnzerd by Focus, or however the heck he jumbled it up, was pretty self-explanatory. Now if I wanted to make an assumption, I would have said you asked him to hack it. But, I never said that. I merely asked you who he was, and what the heck he's trying to do. You guys obviously know him more than I do, and he's on your server afterall. I never once said you had anything to do with it. But at the same time, I don't think it's highly unlikely that this post had a lot to do with the hacking. I've lost count of how many servers I've seen hacked because of a simple rule or a player has a certain vehicle that acts similar to a vehicle another person made. This is exactly what I was saying in the first post. You ask for "ideas." Only one person came up with the idea that you should talk to us. Ironically, that's the same person who said "run them out of business." You're leaving everyone to decide for themselves what needs to be done, and then acting on it in the name of your server, which, in a comical way, is the subject of this issue. That doesn't help our server one bit. It makes hackers thing they're doing some good deed by hacking our server.

"It's really insulting that people are trying to leech off of my success by copying my server name, my features, etc. "

I think it was this quote that brought up the whole issue about stealing people's work. It was not taken out of context. I don't want my server confused with some copy-cat server. I made it known that our server has no content similar to your's. Once again, my emphasis was on the fact that you didn't talk to us first. Now, you can call this a presumption if you want. But, when you throw our name in the same mix as servers that are mirrors of your own, I feel it necessary to make the truth about the issue known.

What I'm trying to say here is, if you have any problems with us from here on out, talk to us about it. You're asking for ideas from others, as if we're hackers launching DoS attacks on your server, and you're desperate to get rid of us. All you had to do was talk to us.

Now as much as I would like to debate this issue further, I don't have the enegry to kick a dead horse. I've said what I wanted to say about this. I've cleared the air regarding our server name. I really just want to get back to work on this mod. If you have any issues with us, whether it be name change or whatever, please, talk to us about it. But hopefully, we won't hit an issue like this again.

Good night. God bless.

Oh, and just so you know, if you see the name GreyPaws on your server, that's not me. I've been told I have a twin roaming the RPG servers. O.o

[Particle]

I don't understand how you can completely misunderstand me at every opportunity.  I tried to explain what was going on to you but you ignored what I actually said and twisted it into what you wanted to hear.  Let me make this as clear as possible:  judging by your last post, you have yet to actually understand what I told you.

Consider this my last post on the subject.  What I have to say, I've said.  Take it for what it actually is or continue to construe it into what you seem to insist I am saying in your posts.  Your choice.  I'm done with it.






And I do realize this is pretty much the main TRPG hub, but like it or not it is still for one single server.  If you want to continue this conversation, we're going to need to do it by voice.  I don't think you can extract what I'm actually saying out of my text.  If you have Google Talk or MSN, I'll be glad to discuss this with you further.  I will not, however, continue this dance in public.

[Urocyon]

I didn't twist anything. I told you why I posted what I posted in response to what you said. Frankly, I think I hit a nerve and that's what this is all about. I came here clear the air about our server name, express our anger regarding the fact that you DID NOT COME TO US, and to present what we know about this whole issue. You're the one taking everything out of context. I never said you hacked any servers. I never said that you directly accused us of stealing your work, but in the same sense, our servers ARE listed there, and you're complaining about people stealing your work. Now don't you think people reading this may perhaps get the wrong idea about us? That's why I said we don't have a "ghettozone." In fact, if you had talked to Sinister personally about this instead of complaining about it here, you would have found out he had no intention of stealing your work... and then there would have been no mention of people stealing your work on this board, and that wouldn't be one of the issues we're discussing right now.

Take a look at this thread again, Particle. All the assumptions you made about Raven, me, Sinister, Paradox, and Brave were wrong. You're the one twisting things around. All any of us wanted to do was host servers and have a little fun with it. Had we known one simple word would have started this whole mess, we would have avoided it like a plague.

You're right though, this is a dance and nothing more. I can see nothing is going to get done here.

Oh, btw, why don't you take a look at the server list? "Focus's Crack House" is posted on two servers, one of which is Brave's. Now, I don't know if the second one is Raven's or not. Like I told her, I wouldn't blame her if she wanted to just stop hosting it all together. Besides, that's what some of you guys wanted anyways, right? To run us out of "business?"

Now, since your stand on it is pretty strong, I'll take your word for it that you had nothing to do with Focus hacking our servers. But, I suggest you guys give your friend a little chat on this issue. Because, if these hacks continue, you guys are just as responsible for it as he is.

As you could probably understand, after an issue like this, I have no intent on coming back here. This was pretty much a waste of time, I guess.

Seeya. God bless. And I mean that. I don't hold any feelings of hatred here, but I AM angry about this whole mess.

[Xenos]

You can't blame the actions of one person that plays on the server as the responsibility of the players and admins.  If anyone from here was hacking your server they did it on their own.  I cant speak for everyone but I think most people do not want to run you out of "business".

I hope you do come back to see this. For what its worth I don't think particle is the kind of guy to send out the hacker to take down other rpg servers.

[Particle]

Urocyon, I told you I'm done with this in public.  If you want a reply I need to talk with you by voice.  YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND, regardless of what you are thinking.  You've made that clear.  I am not going to explain more to you just to have your mind twist it around again.  It's not a conscious thing with you--it's just how your mind works.  I'm no Ph.D in the subject, but it doesn't take one to see that it is happening.  If you are interested in conversing this, it will not be in the forum of a forum post.  I've said it before--I'll be glad to talk to you about this.  Just not here and not in text.

[Frantic]

Hmm. Arch's server has everything Particle's dose and more? 7 new zones, dueling arena and class specific abilities? I think we all know which is the better server.

Also, the posts in this thread make EVIL's look like Koro's. Keep it up guys.

[Particle]

Go have fun on his services then and leave mine out of it.

This discussion is like congress.  There's a topic but there's only one guy who is sticking to it.  Everybody else throws in their two unrelated cents.

[WhoCouldIBe]

Now, since your stand on it is pretty strong, I'll take your word for it that you had nothing to do with Focus hacking our servers.

What is your server called....The only server i "HAXORED" was braves..Unless you're Braveskin, then..I didn't hack your server. But clearly you're new around here because for about 8 years now, people have been using my name to do their evil deeds.