Author Topic: The SP system..  (Read 9954 times)

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Particle

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« Reply #15 on: December 18, 2006 12:30 am CST »
I don't really want to draw directly from anything else.  The less I see of how other people are doing it, the more original the result will be.

SP is nice if you're used to the system, but you have to take a step back and look at the whole picture.  It's a flawed system that stagnates actual character development.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969 06:00 pm CST by Particle »
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sin

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« Reply #16 on: December 18, 2006 02:18 pm CST »
How about a reset of sp to a certain number upon remort.  That way you still have a bit, but not so much as to negate it's purpose.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969 06:00 pm CST by sin »

Xenos

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« Reply #17 on: December 18, 2006 02:19 pm CST »
I like parts of the sp system although it could use some fine tuning. You should not be restricted from learning bash because you're a mage.  Systems like that really suck.  Fighters should be allowed to learn all spells but it should be very hard to do. I think thats what the sp system tried to do but it didn't scale up when you get to higher remorts.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969 06:00 pm CST by Xenos »

Particle

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« Reply #18 on: December 18, 2006 02:51 pm CST »
I totally agree.  I think the system I propose would be more flexible than the SP system in that regard.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969 06:00 pm CST by Particle »
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Kyrie

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« Reply #19 on: December 18, 2006 03:03 pm CST »
I would consider this a discussion for the new PCRPG.

I don't think class should be something decided when you first start out. It's something you should decide over time once you've tried various skills to see what you like. Once certain core skills (weapon/casting skills) have reached a specific level, you'd be given the option to train into a class. If you accept that as your class, your improvement rate for those class-specific skills can increase, say 1.5x the normal skill improvement rate. You also learn new class-only skills.
If you refuse that class and want to try something different, you skill improvement rates stay the same until another skill hits that level.

Now the question is whether you allow players to specialize in more than one class. If they master a class, can they go back and raise other skills to join in another class? If they do, do they forget all that they learned from their original class?

Certainly they should be allowed to change classes, but the main question is what can they keep and what do they lose for doing it?
Maybe each successive class that you learn decreases the improvement rate for the other skills that you haven't specialized in, yet.
A person who specialized as a fighter with Slashing and Endurance then dropped his class would learn casting skills at a lower rate than originally (say, at 0.8 of the original rate). Once his skills hit the class decision level, he can specialize as a mage and learn mage skills at a rate of 1.5 of the 0.8.
After he's learned the mage skills, he can drop the mage class (or his class just becomes modified. He's now a Casting Fighter) and learn thief skills like stealing. But these only increase at a rate of 0.5 since he's learned two classes already. Once he joins the Theif class to train, it's 1.5 of 0.5 and he becomes a Mugging Berserk Mage...or whatever.

This increases the amount of time it takes players to master all classes and become a god, and still allows them to continually increase skills so the game does not become stagnant.

Each class should have specific skills that you can only access when you become a member of that class. You should learn those skills, over time, say one every couple of levels. When you go to change classes, it might be cool if you can keep one of those special skills that you can use even though you drop that class and become a hybrid player. This allows for players who want to be a single pure class to have a reason for doing so..they can get some high level skills.
You shouldn't be allowed to take with you just any skill. Players would train to get the 'best' skill then drop the class. Perhaps class-specific skills can be set in tiers and you can only keep a first or second tiered skill.

A specific example to help better illustrate..

A player starts out fresh. He decides he kind of likes the casting skills, so he focuses on killing enemies with low level spells, maybe a piercing weapon. His skills increase at a rate of 1.0 each level. When he gets to skill-level 10 (we're making up levels here, it really depends on experience rates and whatnot), a Bot in town tells him that he might be interested in  the Guild of Mages. Talking to a bot of the Guild, he is invited into the Mage guild and becomes an Apprentice Mage. Joining the guild he has learned a new spell, a more powerful Fire spell, the Firey Flamer. Over time, his level and Guild Reputation (I'm bringing in reputation because I like reputation systems..) increase. Your Guild Reputation decides what Class-Specific skills you can learn (like Firey Flamer). These are the Guild Secret skills that only members can learn.

The player continues leveling, using new skills as he earns them from his guild, increasing power in his original skills (which now improve at a rate of 1.5. His other skills like slashing, lock picking, now only go up at a rate of 0.8). Eventually he becomes reputed enough within his Guild to learn their Ultimate skill, Super Mega Ice Death. But by now he has become tired of just being a mage, so he leaves the guild and starts to train his lock picking. He loses the Super Mega Ice Death spell, but retains knowledge of Firey Flamer. When his lockpicking reaches skill-level 10 (at 0.8 per level), he is invited into the Thief Guild. Upon acceptance he becomes a Thieving Mage and his reputation with the Mage Guild decreases as his Thief reputation increases.

Players who change their mind can simply drop their new guild and go back to their original guild without having lost too much of their work.

His thief skills (lock picking) now increase at 1.5 x 0.8, and his mage skills drop to the levels of non-thief skills such as slashing (now only 0.5). He decides he really only wanted to have Steal, the first tier Thief skill, so he leaves the Theif guild. He feels he'd like to be able to bash players, so he begins the process of training bash and is invited to the Cleric Guild. Bash now increases at 1.5 x 0.5 and mage/thief/fighter skills increase at 0.3.
And so on...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969 06:00 pm CST by Kyrie »







Particle

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« Reply #20 on: December 18, 2006 03:27 pm CST »
Perhaps I should make this thread more clear.  It was a reply to a thread in the TRPG 6.0 dev forum.  This isn't going to effect PCRPG at least until after 6.0 is done.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969 06:00 pm CST by Particle »
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Xenos

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« Reply #21 on: December 18, 2006 06:30 pm CST »
Interesting idea rose.  The only reason I didn't like class specific skills is how can a mage possibly fight a figher?  There would need to be something equal in each class so certain classes don't get clobbered or be forced to run away.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969 06:00 pm CST by Xenos »

Particle

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« Reply #22 on: December 18, 2006 07:24 pm CST »
From what I've seen in RPGs over the years, total class balance is impossible to get perfect.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969 06:00 pm CST by Particle »
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HUBBA

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« Reply #23 on: December 18, 2006 07:34 pm CST »
One way of fixing that problem would be specific armor for a class. Just throwing a sugestion out there.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969 06:00 pm CST by HUBBA »

villman420

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« Reply #24 on: December 18, 2006 07:45 pm CST »
beam doesnt work in tvt. so one server made beam into a box that captures you and no weapons will break it, only spells. it was awesome. then mages could use a really powerful spell to hurt the fighters. remember that hubba?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969 06:00 pm CST by villman420 »

HUBBA

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« Reply #25 on: December 18, 2006 09:06 pm CST »
Quote from: "villman420"
beam doesnt work in tvt. so one server made beam into a box that captures you and no weapons will break it, only spells. it was awesome. then mages could use a really powerful spell to hurt the fighters. remember that hubba?



Yes. That was a cool spell. Though I never got high enough in skills to use it.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969 06:00 pm CST by HUBBA »

Jenz

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« Reply #26 on: December 18, 2006 11:18 pm CST »
I really love Kyries idea.. one question though.. in your illistration this mage got up to mega icestorm and went back to flame thrower when changing class.. this person is now a hybrid.. but when this person finally becomes a god.. will they get mega icestorm back?.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969 06:00 pm CST by Jenz »

Kyrie

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« Reply #27 on: December 19, 2006 12:08 am CST »
No.
I'd have Guild/Class-specific skills like that put into, for example, two levels. On the first level are the slightly weaker skills. On the second level are the very powerful skills.
When you change classes (guilds, in our example) you can keep some or all of the lower leveled skills, but lose the higher level skills. A hybrid player is weaker than a specialized player, in the specialized player's area of...specialization, but they make up for that weakness by having more skills to draw upon (from other classes/guilds).
So players can either focus solely on a single class and become super awesome at that class...or focus on more than one class..and become pretty good at everything.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969 06:00 pm CST by Kyrie »