Author Topic: $25 Million Prize for fixing climate  (Read 10429 times)

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Bovidi

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« Reply #30 on: February 17, 2007 12:37 am CST »
Ok RedneckNoob I am sorry I never finished reading your full post I just got to bored of reading facts that are sometimes twisted to place a counterclaim against GW, but here are a few.

If you say that humans don't track all glaciers and they don't know it is melting then how do they get the fact that the majority is growing.

As for Chicago going through the coldest stretch.  Well yea, when you have a mass warming you get different airflows which can cause the cold temperatures in certain area....when looking at GW you shouldn't look at just one area you need to look at the average overall.

Even though America creates the most CO2 emmissions it would be silly to believe that the emmissions would hover only over America.  It is blow through the air currents.

Finally the link you posted was to an opinion based article.  The article never really(or at least I dont think) any viable proof behind their accusations.  Like I could just say the same thing about how America messed with some of the numbers.  After all there was a person who came out saying they were one of the people who edited a previous GW report to make it sound less of a threat.

On a percapita basis yes Canada is one of the more bad emmiters of CO2 but honestly our PM when he signed Kyoto really didnt have much to loose.  Yes we increased emmissions though.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969 06:00 pm CST by Bovidi »

sin

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« Reply #31 on: February 17, 2007 01:16 am CST »
Here's the answer:

http://www.zpenergy.com/
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969 06:00 pm CST by sin »

Kyrie

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« Reply #32 on: February 17, 2007 02:44 am CST »
Quote from: "RedneckNoob"
Since Kyrie wants citations, I'll start showing my citations. http://http://boortz.com/nuze/200702/02022007.html
That's not a source. Well, not a good one anyway. That's the equivalent of me linking to a Rush Limbaugh (or however you spell his name) site and saying HERE IS THE TRUTH.
Quote
Neal Boortz is a U.S. talk radio host based in Atlanta, Georgia and nationally syndicated by Cox Radio and the Jones Radio Networks. He is also a lawyer and best-selling author.
You're trying to make this into politics to battle my presentation of scientific research and opinion. Would you please post something a little stronger than opinion or political propaganda?

A prime example of the idiocy of his website:
Quote
Why has one scientist promoting the cause of man-made global warming been quoted as saying "we have to get rid of the medieval warming period?"
I'd like to see the article containing that quote. And I'd like to add that if I'm ever abducted by aliens, I will promote the cause of peace between humanity and other races by being quoted as saying to them "we have to destroy all aliens to be truly at peace."

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One major thing I'd like to point your attention to from that link is:
Quote:
What happened to the Medieval Warm Period? In 1996 the United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change issued a chart showing climatic change over a period of 1000 years. This graph showed a Medieval warming period in which global temperatures were higher than they are today. In 2001 the IPCC issued another 1000 year graph in which the Medieval warming period was missing. Why?
Any rebuttle on that?

Did you even look at the link I posted concerning that? I'd like to see said graph...except your source doesn't actually link to it. We're just supposed to take his word that it exists.
I simply find it interesting that he's suggesting that IPCC 2001 ignored the "Midieval Warming Period" when the link I posted was from their 2001 report and covered exactly that topic.
Edit: I think I found the graph he's referring to, and to what he's specifically referring: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hockey_stick_controversy
The hockey stick controversy is basically a dispute over the validity of Mann's graphs/data and their use in IPCC reports. He supressed the two notable temperature variation periods, most specifically the MWP. However, the MWP is still being debated. They're still trying to figure out if it was as warm as has been previously suggested, and if it was actually a global event, or only a local one.
Here is the history of MWP and LIA in the IPCC reports: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MWP_and_LI ... CC_reports


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If the ice caps are "melting" then how can these ice cores display layers that show the effects of CO2 levels?
I think what you're asking is, how can ice core samples be accurately dated if the glaciers are melting. If so, then here: http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/icecores.html

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Why did a reporter from National Public Radio refuse to interview David Deming, an associate professor at the University of Oklahoma studying global warming, after his testimony to the Senate Environment and Public Works Committee unless Deming would state that global warming was being caused by man?
I can't even read what that's trying to say between all the names and qualifiers. Here's a trimmed and more readable version:
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Why did a reporter refuse to interview David Deming after his testimony unless Deming would state that global warming was being caused by man?
I don't know. How does that have anything to do with this? This appears to be another example of using one person to represent all people/opinions/etc.

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Global warming is a bunch of propaganda.
I've posted links to scientific articles, studies, research. You've posted links to radically political opinions. Who's pushing propaganda?




Could you back up any of what you're saying (at least on the scientific end) with actual data? Leave the politics out of it. I'm not trying to push any politician's agenda, I'm simply presenting facts that I've found. I'd really love to see something legitimate from the opposing view point to better educate myself. I believe that global warming is occuring because all scientific evidence that I've seen suggests that. If someone could bring in convincing evidence of the opposite, I'd be all for it.

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Code:
Parts of the Northeast United States have been nailed by six to seven feet of snow. No ... that's not six to seven inches, we're talking six to seven feet! For those of you educated in government schools, that would be from 72 to 84 inches. They're expecting another two feet perhaps by the end of the day. Why? Well ... global warming, of course! What else would cause record snowfalls other than global warming?


Oh, and if that wasn't enough for you, then here's some more:
Quote:
One city in upstate New York, Redfield, has accumulated 146 inches of snow in the latest winter storm to roar through. Another major winter storm is on the way .... more snow, more cold weather ... and this one is headed to Chicago. Chicago will pick up a foot or more of snow in the next day or two. . Below Chicago into the Mississippi Valley they're looking at another ice storm on the way. I don't know about you ... but a few more weeks of these cold temperatures and 100-inch snows and I'm going to really be fed up with this global warming.

This is very interesting. I'd like to look at a map, specifically, "North East United States" (which is where Redfield, NY is, so we'll group them into one map).

There are, of course, different opinions on what exactly 'North East United States" actually means, but all opinions agree in this one regard: it includes the Great Lakes areas. This is extremely important (and was conveniently left out of your source's notes).
Breakdown: your "source" suggests that because these areas are receiving record levels of snow that this means global warming must surely be B.S.
However, if your source were a scientist (which he isn't), he'd most likely know about this: The Lake Effect. When cold dry air moves across large bodies of warm water, the cold air picks up water vapor from the lake and freezes it, depositing it in areas around the lake. So it would appear that the lakes being warmed (perhaps from global warming, perhaps not) actually leads to increased snow levels.
Interesting article comparing snow fall in lake effect areas and non lake effect areas: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 052121.htm
Now let's look at one of the places that you called specific attention to: Redfield, NY. Redfield is in an area of New York called the Tug Hill Plateau. This is significant because the Tug Hill Plateau is famous for record level snow falls.
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The location of the region in relation to Lake Ontario often creates ideal conditions for accumulation of lake effect snow.

Now, your source has made a true statement but he presented in a way so as to lead to false conclusions. Actually, and I'll give him this much, it's quite funny. You read his statements as proof against global warming when by his own admission the increased snow is caused by global warming.
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They're expecting another two feet perhaps by the end of the day. Why? Well ... global warming, of course! What else would cause record snowfalls other than global warming?
Yes, it's quite possible that global warming lead to increased snow falls through higher than average lake temperatures, but I don't have any data on current and past lake temperatures, so I can't say with confidence that it's true.

RedneckNoob, you really really really need to find someone with actual data to quote and not propagandized opinions. For someone who's concerned with "information manipulation", you need to become better informed. I'm not trying to insult you with any of this, or anything stupid like that, but I think you might be a little confused on what you're really fighting against.

[/epic post]
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969 06:00 pm CST by Kyrie »







Paradox666

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« Reply #33 on: February 17, 2007 07:59 am CST »
:shock:
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969 06:00 pm CST by Paradox666 »





Particle

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« Reply #34 on: February 17, 2007 10:30 am CST »
"the sun's effect on global warming is minimal"

I'd just like to point out that without the sun we'd be a cold, dead rock.  It provides all the energy.  The atmosphere's composition just keeps some of it in.  So, as much as a change of atmospheric composition can change the amount of energy retained, so could solar output.

It's kind of funny really how someone would argue for one half of the story but deny the other.

Anyway, yeah, we've contributed carbon dioxide to our atmosphere.  No, it isn't enough to really make a difference.  No, if the ice caps melt entirely I won't care.  I'm not that close to the coast.  Yes, we're having a cold winter.  Yes, I find it funny.  No, I don't believe it'll stop this "global warming" nonsense--I just predict it's only a matter of time until this period is either ignored or blamed on global warming destabilizing the climate.

Funny how returning all the carbon the dinosaurs were composed of to the surface where it was millions of years ago already is a bad thing.  The dinosaurs didn't just appear.  They had to gain their carbon by consuming other carbon based things on the planet to begin with.  It was always all here and out in the open.  We're just bringing some old deposits out to play.

Global warming happens naturally and artificially, that much is certain.  However, global warming as the concept commonly being used to denote that human activity is causing severe and rapid climate shift is retarded.  I'm also sick of bogus scares leading to needless legislation.  So, let me put it this way:  for every gallon of gasoline you don't burn, I'm going to burn three.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969 06:00 pm CST by Particle »
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Bovidi

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« Reply #35 on: February 17, 2007 03:18 pm CST »
Quote from: "Particle"
"the sun's effect on global warming is minimal"

I'd just like to point out that without the sun we'd be a cold, dead rock.  It provides all the energy.  The atmosphere's composition just keeps some of it in.  So, as much as a change of atmospheric composition can change the amount of energy retained, so could solar output.
In previous years(ie thousands of years ago) the sun has made a huge change in the temperature.  I will admit that but with computer models they actually managed to predict accurately the temperature spikes with the carbon levels as well.  The sun goes on cycles of warming and cooling but the warming never caused a temperature spike like this.  I will see if I can find the temperature graph again, it was been a couple years since I researched this.

Quote from: "Particle"
No, if the ice caps melt entirely I won't care.  I'm not that close to the coast.
I happen to live by the coast.  Actually technically I think the bit that I live is considered under sea levels so please forgive me if I take things like this seriously.

Quote from: "Particle"
Yes, we're having a cold winter.  Yes, I find it funny.
I find it funny too.  I happen to live in a place where we got a lot of extra snow.  The thing with that is with different places becomming warmer it is drawing the air from different places which makes it cold, which in other areas it makes it warmer.

Quote from: "Particle"
Funny how returning all the carbon the dinosaurs were composed of to the surface where it was millions of years ago already is a bad thing.  The dinosaurs didn't just appear.  They had to gain their carbon by consuming other carbon based things on the planet to begin with.  It was always all here and out in the open.  We're just bringing some old deposits out to play.

I agree to a certain extent.  The only slight problem about that is dinosaurs were the vessels for the carbon so it never got into the atmosphere and a lot of the carbon was will stored in the ground with or without lifeforms.  It is just that they were attached to different molecules.

I am really to lazy to find the stuff I research so I just did this from what I remember so some of it might be wrong
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969 06:00 pm CST by Bovidi »

Artorius

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« Reply #36 on: February 17, 2007 04:27 pm CST »
It doesn't matter if pollution is heating up the world or not you idiots.

Pollution still affects our health, it's killing all sorts of animals, including humans, why the fork do you think the amount of people who suffer from athsma is increasing?

Do you enjoy walking down the street sucking on the tale pipes of cars? I sure as hell don't, I always laugh at people who complain about smokers and the smell. Hey asshole, go sit behind a SUV for 20 seconds while it's running and then come complain to me.

It's a sad day when we have to drink water out of bottles, now each and everyone of you should go kill yourselves and stop wasting my precious oxygen.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969 06:00 pm CST by Artorius »


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Particle

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« Reply #37 on: February 17, 2007 04:44 pm CST »
Real men drink tap.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969 06:00 pm CST by Particle »
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RedneckNoob

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« Reply #38 on: February 17, 2007 06:32 pm CST »
Quote from: "Artorius"
It doesn't matter if pollution is heating up the world or not you idiots.

Pollution still affects our health, it's killing all sorts of animals, including humans, why the fork do you think the amount of people who suffer from athsma is increasing?

That's also partially because of smoking.

Quote from: "Particle"
Real men drink tap.


Chlorine gives me heart burn so I try to stay away from it.  I normally go up into the mountains myself and bottle my own water.  :)  Which isn't hard since I live at the base of Pikes Peak.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969 06:00 pm CST by RedneckNoob »





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KoRo

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« Reply #39 on: February 18, 2007 03:06 am CST »
Quote from: "RedneckNoob"
Chlorine gives me heart burn so I try to stay away from it.  I normally go up into the mountains myself and bottle my own water.  :P
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969 06:00 pm CST by KoRo »

Particle

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« Reply #40 on: February 18, 2007 11:12 am CST »
If you climb a mountain to bottle your own water, I suppose that's pretty manly too.
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Vorter_X_

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« Reply #41 on: February 18, 2007 03:42 pm CST »
Almost as manly as kicking a cactus to get your own water...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969 06:00 pm CST by Vorter_X_ »

RedneckNoob

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« Reply #42 on: February 18, 2007 04:45 pm CST »
Hey, it's not easy hiking a mountain bi-weekly, when you're as out of shape as me.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969 06:00 pm CST by RedneckNoob »





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Lidge Farkley

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« Reply #43 on: February 20, 2007 11:47 pm CST »
You guys want an ice age?

Go right ahead and remove that carbon.. toolbags!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969 06:00 pm CST by Lidge Farkley »
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plasma

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« Reply #44 on: February 21, 2007 07:31 pm CST »
i vote for another ice age.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969 06:00 pm CST by plasma »