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Author Topic: The Good and the Bad - A Comp Upgrade Tale  (Read 3429 times)

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Particle

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The Good and the Bad - A Comp Upgrade Tale
« on: March 10, 2003 12:40 am CST »
The Good and the Bad
(A Computer Upgrade Tale)

I just thought I'd share this with you.  This is a story of a typical upgrade gone wrong--even worse than normal.  This is a story of a poor man grown rich.  This is a story about a young man grown into adulthood.  Ok, well, not really.

Once upon a time... I had an ASUS A7V333.  I decided it sucked and thought "Wow this sucks." so I proceeded to seek a replacement.  My A7M266 had done much better than my A7V333 POS.  For those of you who don't know why the A7V333 sucks, I'll do a small background.

Well, the A7V333 comes from a magical land called "VIA-Based Motherboards".  What makes it suck?  It uses pure VIA chipsets.  VIA chipsets have a history of poor PCI and HDD controller performance.  These are exactly the problems I had.  My two WD1200JB's on my A7M266 (a relatively ancient piece of hardware) striped and was able to flood the board's PCI bus at over 100MB/s read.  The VIA board granted me a lovely 35MB/s.  Wonderful upgrade, yes?  THAT's why VIA sucks and THAT's why I finally decided to purchase a new board.

After searching around, I stumbled across the ASUS A7N8X... an nForce2 based board.  This particular chipset allows for a locked PCI bus, something never before seen in the consumer market.  Also, nVidia chipsets have a history of being REALLY DAMN FAST and the A7N8X was no exception!  Every review I read was great, borderline rave.  I bought the non-deluxe version for $118 shipped through Newegg.com (a VERY good online retailer, btw) a few weeks ago.  I popped it in my machine and turned it on.  Everything was great!  I proceeded to set my BIOS settings and then format and reinstall Windows XP (giving it yet another chance).  For those of you not familiar with my XPeriences with Windows XP, read the next paragraph.  Otherwise you may skip this next paragraph.

Why I HATE Windows XP
Windows XP and I have never really gotten along.  Each time I install it, it dies in some horrible manner or other.  There's always a catastrophic failure.  Windows XP is like the 16,000v overhead line and my comp is the "oceanious planet", a preverbal bathtub if you will.  

Being new hardware, I decided to go against everything that sanity suggests I do and give XP another try.  Everything was going well until after the restart from initial Windows setup.  It crashed.  I figured "hey, it was bound to happen at some point during one of these installs".  In the back of my mind, however, I was thinking "Uh-oh.  New board... this hasn't ever happened...".  I let it restart setup and go again hoping for the best and it failed again, and again, and again.  I think it was that 5th try that it finished.  After that Windows XP seemed to be going ok.  It started locking on me (like always) then locked one last time after moving my mouse.  Windows XP never started again.

At this point I was at the "F*** that s***, time for 2k." stage.  I installed Win2k without a hitch and started getting everything how I liked it again.  BOOM.  Crash.  I figured that one crash never hurt anybody and ignored it.  Unfortunately for me, the problems in Win2k were just delayed instead of right away as in WinXP...

I started doing some research on the amdmb.com forums and found that the A7N8X, while being very fast and overall more reliable than VIA products, had an evil side.  People were plagued with problems varying from the BIOS's dying when setting are saved to CPU's not being recognized.  Unfortunately for me, there's another problem with the board that explained my trouble.  Apparently, the board is not compatible with the double-sided Samsung PC2700 (512MB) modules.  These are EXACTLY what I had used for almost a year w/o a hitch on my A7V333.  In fact, this 166MHz (333MHz DDR/PC2700) RAM had reached 182MHz with rock solid stability.  It could have gone further but my PCI bus started giving trouble (a reason the locked bus was a selling point for the A7N8X) around that speed.  It happened at 182MHz along with about 145MHz... clearly a matter of the divider not keeping the PCI bus low enough. (Same PCI speed at those FSB's).

After a lot of troubleshooting on what I could do to stabilize my system, I finally was able to put my two dimms in slots 2 and 3 @ 133MHz (266MHz DDR/PC2100) and maintain stability.

This sucks.  It's slower than what I WAS using!  I'm planning on getting a matched set of 512MB PC3500 dimm's.  The GeiL PC3500 (216MHz, 433MHz DDR) memory has been tested and run at 495MHz DDR.  Even then, it was the CPU/board that was maxed instead of memory.  One reviewer even used the A7N8X (deluxe) as a test bed for it so I know it'll work.  Unfortunately, this is going to cost me $260 when I don't exactly have a lot of money to spare.  Granted, I spent over $300 on RAM last year, but that was then.

What have I learned from this experience?  Nothing.  Not a damn thing.  What have I gained from this?  A fun few weeks troubleshooting.  Was it worth the trouble?  Yeah.

Still with me?  Cool, whataya think?
« Last Edit: March 10, 2003 09:22 am CST by Particle »
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Jason_Xero

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« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2003 01:09 am CST »
Well, about 3 months ago I upgraded to the same board, except the Deluxe version (Asus A7N8X Deluxe).  I ended up formatting because I was wondering why I was getting bad performance from my Radeon 9700 Pro.  After 2 formats, I finally come accross a forum that said that by turning off TruForm, games run as good as they should.  Stupid ol me did all that formatting for nothing, as it was with the video card and not the motherboard.  I went for the deluxe because it does have everything I need; on-board 5.1 encoding, s/pdif coax out, 6 usb ports, etc.  I use it all, and I think it's one hell of a board.  Lucky for me, I've not encountered any problems so far, but I fear I might when I eventually upgrade to a 166 FSB processor (or just do the "trick" on my 2200+ to fool it into a 166 FSB).  Not only that, but I think that my 'old' Corsair 2400 (300mhz) XMS 256"X2" will not work at 333mhz *without high latency*, as I have already tried running at 150mhz at 5-2-2-2, and only encounter few far and in between crashes.  I don't know of setting it to 5-3-3-3 or 6-2-2-2 might keep it stable as a rock, because these crashes are weird ones, all BSoD's with some weird IQRL errors...

All I carry on my mobo is the video card, everything else is onboard.  The largest factor I saw in purchasing this motherboard, was mainly the nforce2 chipset, but also the fact that it does 5.1 encoding in real-time.  I use Altec Lansing ADA890's with the Dolby Digital hookup with only an RCA cable and I get true 5.1 decoding when it comes to games.  My SB Live 5.1 was  working good with the original drivers, until I upgraded the drivers and found there was no support for "Live Surround" anymore and that just made me pissed off because I no longer had real-time 5.1 encoding.

The board I had before this was the ECS K7S5A, which was a good board at the time.  Only thing is that with the newer bioses, you have to format your hard drive everytime you swap mobos.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2003 01:16 am CST by Jason_Xero »
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Gotta love SBC with their 6Mbps tier for 45$
(Yes, on their site it only shows 3Mbps, but it is actually 6Mbps, I would know :)).

Darwin

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« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2003 01:11 am CST »
The first comp I built had VIA mobo in it, and this was when I really didnt know how to build a comp, so I just connected a 8 year old HDD to it, and I couldnt figure out why the hell it sucked untill like a year and a half ago.  This week I'm gonna install XP on it and give it to charity or something...

I forgot what model mobo it is, since I lost the manual, but all I know is that it takes Athlon, Duron, and Thunderbird processors, has a 4x agp slot, and only accepts PC100/133 RAM.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969 06:00 pm CST by Darwin »
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Particle

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« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2003 08:59 am CST »
I just didn't see why should I buy the deluxe when I only have two speakers, use one LAN connection, and the SATA implementation isn't very good.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969 06:00 pm CST by Particle »
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As a point of history:  Our last server clear was on September 27, 2004.  That is 4963 days ago (13.6 years) as of today.

If you're visiting after a long hiatus and have forgotten your password, try emailing me via the support form at http://www.pcrpg.org.

If your character is from after the 2004 clear but appears to have been deleted or reset, chances are it was caught in one of the inactive account purges over the years.  Backups were made before such events, so try the support form.

Hack-N-Slash

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« Reply #4 on: March 10, 2003 09:20 am CST »
Children pee their pants whenever they hear this bedtime story...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969 06:00 pm CST by Hack-N-Slash »
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[size=200]I am a fat, wealthy, capitalist pig[/size]

Darwin

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« Reply #5 on: March 10, 2003 03:45 pm CST »
Who said "children?"  I already have  :roll:
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969 06:00 pm CST by Darwin »
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Particle

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« Reply #6 on: March 10, 2003 06:02 pm CST »
Well, I tried to make it more humorous than it originally was.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969 06:00 pm CST by Particle »
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As a point of history:  Our last server clear was on September 27, 2004.  That is 4963 days ago (13.6 years) as of today.

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Darwin

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« Reply #7 on: March 11, 2003 12:24 pm CST »
Aint Windoze XP fun?!

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969 06:00 pm CST by Darwin »
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Jason_Xero

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« Reply #8 on: March 11, 2003 03:12 pm CST »
Haha you got Renegades instead of Generals.  I did the same thing; I downloaded what appeared as Generals but instead I got Renegades too.  It takes forever for that malarkey to unpack!  But my comp didn't act all weird like yours. Go intel!

Anyway, I always wanted to try Renegades, you want to play it sometime if we can figure a way?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969 06:00 pm CST by Jason_Xero »
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Gotta love SBC with their 6Mbps tier for 45$
(Yes, on their site it only shows 3Mbps, but it is actually 6Mbps, I would know :)).

Darwin

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« Reply #9 on: March 11, 2003 03:39 pm CST »
I got a P4, jason...

Neway, when I was running that, I was also (at the same time) opening WMplayer and opening the zip for UT (which was disguised at UT2K3 (DOH!).
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969 06:00 pm CST by Darwin »
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Xanth

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« Reply #10 on: March 11, 2003 04:47 pm CST »
So far i have had good luck with my Windows XP.  Im running a Azza KT333 DDR Motherboard and 640MB SD 2100 SD with 60GB HD with a AMD AthlonXP 1700+.  I have had WinXP running now for 6 months without a hitch.  I have the same setup and home and it has not crashed (Seriously) in about a year.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969 06:00 pm CST by Xanth »
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Currently playing BF2
(Name: Xanth-911 ) BooYa!!

Darwin

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« Reply #11 on: March 12, 2003 01:00 am CST »
I could be doing the same thing as you, but I made a tiny mistake when picking out parts for my comp.  Hmm, I just couldnt see the difference between RDRAM and DDR RAM, *sigh*
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969 06:00 pm CST by Darwin »
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Particle

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« Reply #12 on: March 12, 2003 06:07 pm CST »
lol

If you can't tell the difference maybe you shouldn't be building your own rig.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969 06:00 pm CST by Particle »
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As a point of history:  Our last server clear was on September 27, 2004.  That is 4963 days ago (13.6 years) as of today.

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Darwin

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« Reply #13 on: March 12, 2003 06:26 pm CST »
I wasnt actually building the rig, it was a custom job thing.  Im mmkay with my RAM just fine, just as long as I have enough of it (unfortunately, its expensive).  I think I'm gonna save up and buy another 128 MB stick of it.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969 06:00 pm CST by Darwin »
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Particle

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« Reply #14 on: March 12, 2003 07:57 pm CST »
DDR is cheap, Darwin.

I spent $300 last year and bought 1.5GB of it.

You can spend half that much this year for the same stuff.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969 06:00 pm CST by Particle »
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As a point of history:  Our last server clear was on September 27, 2004.  That is 4963 days ago (13.6 years) as of today.

If you're visiting after a long hiatus and have forgotten your password, try emailing me via the support form at http://www.pcrpg.org.

If your character is from after the 2004 clear but appears to have been deleted or reset, chances are it was caught in one of the inactive account purges over the years.  Backups were made before such events, so try the support form.
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