Say hello to my little friend.

[Aphex]

aids.

[Lidge Farkley]

AIDS

[Gnight]

Cars kill many more people than guns, but since cars are a social norm there isn't any illogical stigma surrounding their use.

Just in case you care (most recent year available; 2004):
Unintentionally killed by firearms:  649
Unintentionally killed by vehicles:  43,432 (66.9x more likely)
Unintentionally killed by poisons:  20,950
Unintentionally killed by falling:  18,807
Unintentionally killed by heart disease:  652,486
Unintentionally killed by flu:  59,664

So, what does this say?  This says that the type of firearms use that you find wrong is nearly 6700% more safe than you riding in/driving a car, more than 3200% more safe than just living your daily life (and accidentally poisoning yourself), and 2900% more safe than living your life anywhere there is a potential for falling (stairs, etc).  You are also over 1000x more likely to just keel over and die from heart disease and 92x more likely to be killed by somebody else passing the flu virus to you.

Your argument is just not logically sound.  If you were to ban anything man-made that has the potential to kill, you'd have to live a very spartan life.  You'd have no objects weighing more than about 2 ounces (no tv, no fridge, no microwave, no doors, no hammers, no screwdrivers, no hair curler, no blow drier, no shampoo bottles, no bathroom scale, no wall clocks, no camcorders, no bottled water, no flashlights, no vehicles, no mailbox, no computer, no speakers, no staplers, no saws, no drills, etc...you get my point).  Almost anything of any substance can be used as a weapon to more easily kill another.  We've been doing it as a species long before recorded history.  You might say, "But who would kill somebody with a toaster?"  Nobody, usually.  That doesn't mean you cannot or it would not be a useful weapon, however.  A toaster or a microwave is just like any other object when a human is not around.  It doesn't attack anybody if it is not thrown, kicked, or used as a club.  A firearm is ABSOLUTELY no different.  It takes a person with the conscious intent to kill or incompetence to load it, cock it, aim, and pull the trigger when talking about murder.  By itself it will do nothing at all.  In your hand, it will do nothing at all.  You must work it yourself.  Is your intent good or evil?  It's like those moral crusaders who want to prohibit people from using curse words.  You can say anything you want, just replace curse words with these fun alternatives:  "Shut the front door!"  or "That's bullshoot!"  They don't care about or try to change the underlying behavioral problems that leads somebody to use that language.  They just care about the means by which the message is delivered--the words.  They're censoring the sequence of sounds instead of the information/message/emotion being conveyed by the person speaking.  Likewise, you don't seem to care by what means somebody kills another.  Let's just ignore that, shall we?  No.  Guns don't do jack malarkeye.  If you want to assign blame and prohibit murder (accidental or not), blame the right thing.  People kill people, and that's the bottom line.

You are absolutly right!

[Particle]

Remind me to keep a hard drive close to my heart, litterally, when I get in a gun fight.

I forgot to reply to this earlier.

Hard drives are surprisingly bullet resistant, in my experience.  While bullets blow through many things that we consider solid on a daily basis, hard drives are an exception.  I've even had 9mm rounds stopped by a 2.5" laptop drive before...barely.  While a .45 ACP reliably penetrates 2.5" laptop drives, they're no match for 3.5" desktop drives.  I even had one hit three times without ever penetrating.  As you can see in the image I provided earlier, a .22LR seems to be stopped by a 3.5" desktop drive (generally).  After one was already damaged substantially, I had one .22LR go through a drive completely.  On the other hand, my .223 Remington pistol cuts through them like butter, but that's a different threat entirely.  We're talking about 2x to 3x the energy on a much smaller diameter bullet that's pointed instead of domed, so I wouldn't expect it to be stopped in the first place.

So, what is the lesson?  A hard drive might save your life if it is between an attacker and you.  I wouldn't depend on it, but it's certainly a lot better than nothing.

[Lidge Farkley]

Man.. hauling around a hard drive isn't worth the maybe in that scenario, Particle.

I think the best strategy is to just die with the first shot, rather than lug that annoying hunk of metal around for a while before being hit with a bullet hose.

;-)

[Aphex]

Cars kill many more people than guns, but since cars are a social norm there isn't any illogical stigma surrounding their use.

Just in case you care (most recent year available; 2004):
Unintentionally killed by firearms:  649
Unintentionally killed by vehicles:  43,432 (66.9x more likely)
Unintentionally killed by poisons:  20,950
Unintentionally killed by falling:  18,807
Unintentionally killed by heart disease:  652,486
Unintentionally killed by flu:  59,664

yeah that's accidents.

but in 2004 there were  29,569 deaths by firearm. so that means that 29 thousand people were killed on purpose with a gun in the U.S.

[Particle]

That's strange, my numbers were closer to 14,000.  I about included that, but the comparison isn't statistically valid.  That would be for usage in line with what you say you want firearms for, while accidents would be in line with what I want firearms for.  It doesn't take a genious to figure out which use is safer, either.  Even using your number, however, it shows that driving is a third more dangerous than all the serial killers, gang members, mafia, and every other homicidal criminal out there combined.

[Aphex]

i got the number from the NCIPC website.

[Artorius]

I'm probably the only one who will find this amusing but.. Particle spelled genius wrong.. keke.

I imagine the number also includes suicides.

[Lidge Farkley]

I'm probably the only one who will find this amusing but.. Particle spelled genius wrong.. keke.

I imagine the number also includes suicides.

Ohh!  You're so imaginative!

[kharandhil]

gun don't kill people
people kill

having any weapon as a hobby and even using it is ok, but in this world oyu have some nasty guys who use the weapons for their true use

[Aphex]

guns were invented to kill and you cant deny that.

[Artorius]

I'm probably the only one who will find this amusing but.. Particle spelled genius wrong.. keke.

I imagine the number also includes suicides.

Ohh!  You're so imaginative!

"29,569 Americans died from fire-arm related deaths, 16,750 were suicides. "

Thanks sweety.

Douche.

[Particle]

So were nuclear bombs.  Now we use that same technology every day to produce cleaner-than-alternatives power.  War drives innovation and technology development more than anything else does.  There's no denying that, either.

I guess my final point here is that I like my firearms, and any attempt to make myself as a responsible gun owner seem like a less civilized person is insulting and wrong.

Go hug a tree and eat some vegetables if that's what you find pleasing.  I'll enjoy accelerating little chunks of metal toward ink circles on paper for sport.  We both win.  Yay.

Actually, that came out kind of insulting.  I'm sure you get what I mean to say.

[KoRo]

That depends how you look at. The gun is simply an evolutionary step from the bow+arrow, which was then a step forward from the spear, and so on and so forth. Originally, these were tools made to help our cave-dwelling ancestors kill animals for food. But at some point, some creative & angry caveman thought "hey, if these can kill animals, they can kill the guy who stole my mate".