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Author Topic: Shields  (Read 13040 times)

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Particle

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« Reply #15 on: March 29, 2003 07:20 pm CST »
The blood groove has nothing to do with "blood".  The groove makes it lighter without taking too much strength and without modifying the blade itself.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969 06:00 pm CST by Particle »
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EVIL_INC

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« Reply #16 on: March 29, 2003 07:44 pm CST »
The blood groove allows the blood from a stab wound to leave the wound. Without it, it cant leave the wound until the blade is removed and with the blood creating the suction, it was difficult to remove the blade. That is why when you stab in with a blade that has a blood groove, the blood spurts out of the groove and the blade is easily retracted from the victom. In battle, this was an absolute nessessity as it allowed you to prepare for the next attack or to bring your defense back in time to block the persons you just killed buddies attacks.
(true, it did lighten the blade, but that was a secondary benifit)
The same principle applies to shaft weapons. And example is when i shot my buddy with a blowgun dart. the dart went in and the blood stuck in the wound made retracting the dart very difficult. he had to actuall pull it out and this was difficult. the suction held the dart in as long as it could. the flesh around it was actually sticking to the dart because of this suction. The instant the point finally made it out, you could actually hear the pop of the suction seal being broken and the blood immediately started shooting out of the wound like a water gun.
Trust me, I know my stuff on this.  :twisted:
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969 06:00 pm CST by EVIL_INC »
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Crash

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« Reply #17 on: March 29, 2003 07:45 pm CST »
Particle is correct. If the metal that would have been there still were, the sword would be much heavier, and harder to weild for long periods of time.

Also, if we are going for correctness.... a rapier isn't a katana. It is a dagger.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969 06:00 pm CST by Crash »
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EVIL_INC

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« Reply #18 on: March 29, 2003 08:00 pm CST »
The lighter weight of a sword with a blood groove is a SECONDARY side effect. The original purpose of them was to allow for the blood to leave the wound and prevent the suction that would otherwise make extraction of the blade difficult.
A katana is a slashing/cleaving weapon.
a rapier is designed for small light cuts and single thrust kills. They did not need blood grooves due to the fact that after the single killing stab, you would have planty of time to extract the blade. the secondary side effect of the lighness of a blade with a blood groove was not needed either due to the thinness of the blade and the lighter balence.
the styles of use between a katana and a rapier are thus entirely different although I have found that it IS possible to use a bastardized version of elizabethian style fencing using a katana if you have the reach. However, it is impossible to return the favor with the rapier due to the shortness of the hilt and the style of the hilt on most rapiers (they had a hand gaurd that extended from the basket or dish or whatevr style "crosshilt" was used to the pommel. Although, a rapier COULD be modified for the purpose since they used a rattail tang or partial tang. just remove the blade from the hilt and attach it to a long hilt that could hold both hands and you would have a very fast  weapon that could be very usefull. (although i prefer a full tang on my blades.)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969 06:00 pm CST by EVIL_INC »
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Crash

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« Reply #19 on: March 29, 2003 08:12 pm CST »
*sigh*
I have heard many different people, who I would consider respectable in their knowledge of hand to hand combat, say that the blood groove is there only for lightning the weapon. Saying it made blood flow easier was just a myth.


My comment about the rapier was a refrence to the ingame modle of the rapier looking like a katana. I didn't say that either had/needed a blood groove, hence the space between the two different statements.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969 06:00 pm CST by Crash »
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Crash

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« Reply #20 on: March 29, 2003 08:18 pm CST »
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969 06:00 pm CST by Crash »
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EVIL_INC

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« Reply #21 on: March 29, 2003 08:33 pm CST »
LOL you can tell this guy never actually USED these weapons. I am basing my claims on others who have written fully credited works on the subject and who has actually practiced with the weapons.
I have seen this firsthand and know it for truth.

about the katana, im sorry for my mistaking you on that.

But on the bloodgroove and shield thing, I have been studying these things firsthand and actually practicing it since 1983. Like I said earlier, I may be "stupid on many of the things you talk about here but this is something that I am actually knowledgeable about and can fully support my stand.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969 06:00 pm CST by EVIL_INC »
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EVIL_INC

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« Reply #22 on: March 29, 2003 08:42 pm CST »
AHHH I see where he is coming from and that fully supports my claims that he is a student of the technical aspect of mettalurgy rather than the practicing of the results.
When a blade stabs. i mean purely stabs, there is no cutting and a suction is indeed created. NOW, if you move the blade forward and backward it will break that seal as the opening of the wound is "cut" so that it is larger than the blade allowing it to "bleed" around it.
in testing the theory, the testers have ample time to cut the wound out in this fashion and do it as a matter of course without realizing what they are doing. In combat, a soldier does not have the time to perform the extra movements to do this.
However, I will acknowledge that to a degree, both of our arguments are fully valid. Yours from the technical aspect and me from the application aspect. So perhaps we can settle this as us BOTH being right and it being a matter of "the chicken and the egg".  :)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969 06:00 pm CST by EVIL_INC »
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Crash

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« Reply #23 on: March 29, 2003 09:39 pm CST »
Perhaps I will just get a sword, and pounce on my neighbor. I will thrust in, and see if it is true. I will make sure it has no blood groove.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969 06:00 pm CST by Crash »
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EVIL_INC

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« Reply #24 on: March 29, 2003 10:10 pm CST »
LOL try the blowgun example. That proves the case of suction in the wound since there is no edge to work back and forth and widen it. It is a LOT safer then using the full sword. the principle is the same, just one has an edge and the other does not. Your also far less likely to kill the neighbor as long as you manage to just hit them in the arm or leg. Even then, be sure to be out of arms reach as they will likely get pissed. I know my buddy who I hit that way was.  :twisted:
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969 06:00 pm CST by EVIL_INC »
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eViL

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« Reply #25 on: March 29, 2003 10:25 pm CST »
i am curious... how did this topic go from "shields block my view" to "lets stab my neighbor and find out" ?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969 06:00 pm CST by eViL »
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EVIL_INC

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« Reply #26 on: March 29, 2003 10:33 pm CST »
LOL what do you expect from the likes of us.  :twisted:
I dont know about the others, but I am an expert on this subject and LOVE to discuss it at length. You are the coding expert, I am the ancient weapons and warfare expert.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969 06:00 pm CST by EVIL_INC »
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Crash

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« Reply #27 on: March 29, 2003 10:48 pm CST »
No, a dart gun isn't the same. It doesn't have a pointy end, doesn't pierce the skin, and doesn't get rid of the annoying moaning sounds at night.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969 06:00 pm CST by Crash »
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Particle

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« Reply #28 on: March 30, 2003 12:08 am CST »
Theyre armaments from the timeframe, eViL.

I will trust one studying for 27 years over one studying for 21 years.  I still don't believe that the groove helps you take your blade out of somebody.  Nothing against you personally, but my judgment, logic, physics, and somebody with more experience seem to agree.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969 06:00 pm CST by Particle »
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Darwin

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« Reply #29 on: March 30, 2003 12:31 am CST »
Can we just get away from all this slashing and thrashing and agree that a nuke is much more effective?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969 06:00 pm CST by Darwin »
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