Poll

Should we clear to revitalize the server?

Yes (I would continue/start playing again)
21 (55.3%)
Yes (But I will be leaving)
2 (5.3%)
No (But I will start over and play)
6 (15.8%)
No (And I will leave if cleared)
9 (23.7%)

Total Members Voted: 38

Voting closed: January 31, 2008 04:37 pm CST

Author Topic: Dun dun dun dunnnnnn! (*whispers* Should we clear?)  (Read 45932 times)

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villman420

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« Reply #75 on: November 16, 2007 05:12 pm CST »


forgot this one
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969 06:00 pm CST by villman420 »

Corona

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« Reply #76 on: November 16, 2007 08:11 pm CST »
Shazbot!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969 06:00 pm CST by Corona »

Kyrie

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« Reply #77 on: November 16, 2007 11:07 pm CST »
Quote from: "EVIL_INC"
Looking at the pics, I can see that there are many people starting new characters whil thier reguler ones are afk. or a single one or two double and triple logging starting several new ones to make it look like there are more.
Triple logging is illegal. In that image, every single one of those low RL characters is a new player. In fact, aside from Corona and myself, every single one of those connected characters is a unique player and IP. You don't have to believe it if you don't want to, but Tokath's and Particle's connection logs will prove it to be true. Please stop spewing your lies from your spewhole, ye agent of R.F.

M-O-O-N, that spells EVIL_INC.

Quote from: "EVIL_INC"
Now it only takes 5 to use the shove skill.
What do you mean, "now?" That is the way it has ALWAYS been. 5 bash to use #shove. #shove's strength is based on the player's level. By the time you get to Den, around level 25, you're plenty strong enough to shove any afk people out of the way. Speaking of AFK players, I haven't seen you complain about Tokath. He's afk more than anyone and he's ALWAYS in Den.

Quote from: "EVIL_INC"
How many spp does a mage have to spend at rl0 to get to bash 5?
24. Not something they will want (or even ever need) to do at level 1, but not at all difficult to do when the time comes that they need it.

Quote from: "EVIL_INC"
When the gods are regulely found afk in the den, in minos, in yolanda, at elven ect ect, it is impossible for the noobs to level.
No god even goes to Yolanda or Elven to level, and only the stupid ones go to Den. By RL20 at the latest you should be going to Gran'Kar at level 9 or 10, thus completely skipping both mines and Yolanda. You can easily go straight from Gran'Kar to Den and thus completely skip Elven or Crypt.
Gods skip all of that: the lower leveled ones start at Gran'Kar at level 1, then often go to Crypt to level 30 or so. Then they go straight to Cavern or Uber.

Quote from: "EVIL_INC"
Unless of course, you are in the super god club and just move your character so your other one can level. That or be a friend of the super god and ask them to move. If you arent, you get mugged/killed for even bothering to ask.

Interesting thing about that, I was just talking to another god friend of mine. He says he and several other people on the server have offered to group with you so that you'd be able to teleport them from the zone in the event that they over-level. Apparently, you turned them all down. You'll probably say you received no such offer, to which I reply: the person I've heard this from does not lie. If he says he and several others offered this to you, then they did so. Why did you refuse to group with them and be their friend? Do you go out of your way to ensure that you always have something to complain and argue about?

At any rate, this is not about EVIL_INC. He does not actively play the server: his vote should have no count. The players who play the server are not having their voices heard, but I and others are attempting to speak for them. Corona's screen shots and chat logs that I have posted show the truth: the people who actually play the game do not want a clear.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969 06:00 pm CST by Kyrie »







Arf

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« Reply #78 on: November 16, 2007 11:42 pm CST »
Quote from: "EVIL_INC"
Looking at the pics, I can see that there are many people starting new characters whil thier reguler ones are afk. or a single one or two double and triple logging starting several new ones to make it look like there are more. That is why the server usually has so high of a population, you have a few players with several different characters on. Most real noobs have been run off and many of the old timers have left either through sheer boredom of lack of challenge or players chasing them off because they want to be jerks.

How do you know this?  Do you have some special way to identify which of the n00bs are additional characters of existing players?  Are you suggesting that there is some kind of collective conspiracy among a few payers to make the server seem more busy than it really is?

Quote from: "EVIL_INC"
Arf, you are right, for some reason, I was victomised. The reason I was was because I tried to move a supergod so I could level. The problem is, in my case, the supergod who I tried to move so I could level did not stop the harrassment. They were as bad as shorty or celtic in that it was constant harrassment that never ended.

OK some asshats do carry things a bit far, There has always been these type players around and there always will be...  this is the human element that i spoke of earlier...  you will never change this aspect of human nature...  not with limits, caps or regulations...  

Quote from: "EVIL_INC"
Now it only takes 5 to use the shove skill. Exactly how far can you shove someone at bash 5? In a zone where bots are casting killer spells at you (spells that can kill you with a single hit) how easy is to to shove someone at bash 5 to where you can level while being constantly hit with those spells? How many spp does a mage have to spend at rl0 to get to bash 5?

I don't understand how the zones play out in this part of your statement.  In my time with this game and this server, i have dealt with exactly the thing you are talking about.  I rode Deschain's coat tails for weeks picking up scraps from the kills that he made.   This was the trade off as i was allowed to use him as a meat shield in zones where i would surely die very easily and i still made Arf a "God" in 58 days...  i made my next 100 rls in half that time but still i had to "share" the zones with some pretty lofty characters.  i had to endure the indiginties thrust upon me by a number of players that i don't have enough time to name...  and still ...As of today i have 862+ rl's in 239 days...   do the math...  thats 3.6 rls per day...  that is not a very high average...  i have been able to compile over a billion coins just picking up junk and selling it in that time...  and i still have to deal with the same thing you deal with when you play...  rl's don't change the game play that much ...




Quote from: "EVIL_INC"
When the gods are regulely found afk in the den, in minos, in yolanda, at elven ect ect, it is impossible for the noobs to level. Unless of course, you are in the super god club and just move your character so your other one can level. That or be a friend of the super god and ask them to move. If you arent, you get mugged/killed for even bothering to ask.

all i will say is that you were offered "membership" in our little group...  and you did not take it.  Why was that? Did it mean that there would be one less point to your argument of why you are unhappy with the server community?   Do you not accept charity?   Many times you came into a zone that I was working and I left to give you the opportunity to level without my interference.   During my stay here, only a very few "supergods" i have seen use the den, minos, yolanda or elven...  yes there are players that do go afk in the pit and if there is an admin or pk around they get moved...  i know this to be true cause i have been doing it since i was given the authority to do so...

Quote from: "EVIL_INC"
I come in off and on all the time. Recently, I have been on more with the talk of fixing the problems. I dont need to join "just to prove a point", the simple facts do that for me well enough.
I understand though that people have worked hard or at least left thier characters afk to work hard to get to thier lofty status and do not want to lose them. I understand that, I built up my own character to godhood without using dust or outside help or even going afk and lost it in a clear. It makes you think it was all a waste. Not that I did anything more then helps out noobs and run quests for those who were lower rl then myself with it because no bots or zones on the server were a challenge. anything other then that was boring. That is why I suggested the caps. To make all of the zone a challenge once more to EVERYONE so that everyone could have fun playing rather then just logging on and then leaving home for the day while you afk farm ubers of minos or mine or whatnot. That would make the game a true game once more to those so powerfull it is not a game now and give the low level characters a chance to gain levels as well.

Now i will quote myself to reiterate the message cause i think you missed it the last time


Quote from: "Arf"
Even if there is a clear, with or without significant changes... you cant change the human element... if you dont play as much or more than the most... you will fall behind and suffer the same consequences and indignities as you have suffered in the past...


Your characters performance is a direct result of your efforts in the game and not a logical reason to clear a players character... or the entire server for that matter...

I cant believe i am talking myself out of my vote to clear...  dang it...  i am a moron  lol
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969 06:00 pm CST by Arf »
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JayJay

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« Reply #79 on: November 17, 2007 12:01 am CST »
CLEAR CLEAR CLEAR OMGGOMGOMGOMG CLEARRS!!@  FATPIX
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969 06:00 pm CST by JayJay »

Vorter_X_

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« Reply #80 on: November 17, 2007 03:31 am CST »
You guys take malarkey way too seriously. Chill out, have some fun. After all, it is just a game.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969 06:00 pm CST by Vorter_X_ »

Arf

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« Reply #81 on: November 17, 2007 09:11 am CST »
Quote from: "Vorter_X_"
You guys take malarkeye way too seriously. Chill out, have some fun. After all, it is just a game.


yeahh  i know you are right...  it's just another game... but i remember spending hours in the arcade playing Gauntlet and whining about not having enough money...  lol   got a quarter?...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969 06:00 pm CST by Arf »
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Kyrie

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« Reply #82 on: November 17, 2007 02:06 pm CST »
Quote from: "EVIL_INC"
I am not saying that ALL of those are noob players. How many of them are actual noob players and how many of them are reguler players starting new characters? How many of them are double loggers.
I answered all of those questions. I know you're not saying all of them are noob characters. I am the one saying that all of those noob characters are brand new players with no other previous characters on the server, and, none of them are double or triple connected.

Quote from: "EVIL_INC"
I am also sure that you do not have those sorts of numbers 24/7 either.
The server remains fairly populated almost 24/7. Granted, Wednesday morning at 4:03am the server is less populated than on Saturday afternoon 4:03pm. But that's normal rise and and fall of traffic that you see any ANY server.

Quote from: "EVIL_INC"
The rpg servers keep players 24/7 because of the ability to afk and benifit.
Is that a bad thing? The more players that are on a server, the more likely that server is going to be joined by new players. Especially on Tribes were populated servers are getting harder and harder to find, you want to have lots of players on as often as you can to continue drawing new players who want a highly populated server. This is Server Administration 101.

Quote from: "EVIL_INC"
(I have even found a perfectly logical and easy to apply solution that will give you what you want and cause you to not lose your character through a clear.).
What is it, please refresh my memory.

Quote from: "EVIL_INC"
You gave the numbers to get to 5 but you did not answer the question, exactly how far can a rl 1 character shove a player at bash 5?
I actually did answer the question. I don't know how far exactly, there are no hard numbers for it and I don't feel like trying to track down the equation in the mod code.
An RL1 character can shove a player exactly the same distance as an RL20000 character can shove, if their levels are the same. Shove strength is based ONLY on the player's level, after the initial 5 bash required to use the #shove command. A level 50 player's shove is stronger than a level 20 player's shove. A level 20 player's shove is plenty strong enough to shove players around.

Quote from: "EVIL_INC"
how far can a rl 1 character shove an overweight character who has been sitting there mining for8,12,20 + hours? How can they do this while being hit by7 mobs that can kill them with a single hit or spell or two?
There are no enemies at the mining spike. Also, players who mine do not go overweight: they store their items automatically. So, a player could very easily shove a miner away from the spike, but they'd do so at their own risk. The miners would get extremely annoyed.


Quote from: "EVIL_INC"
Tokath is in a den true, but he does not cast unless asked to so he does not steal exp or prevent others from leveling.
Need I remind you that you wish to eliminate all afking? Miners do not steal exp or prevent others from leveling, yet you want to get rid of them as well.

Quote from: "EVIL_INC"
I have seen the gods in yolanda and den and elven.
I have seen one god level in Den and no gods ever in Yolanda or Elven. I play a hell of a lot more than you do. If I play 10,000 times in the same amount of time that you play 10 times, whose test sample is more accurate? Even if a god did decide, for some weird reason, to level in those three zones: they have as much right to do so as anyone.
My knowledge of where players/gods level and where they don't is a LOT more accurate than yours.

Quote from: "EVIL_INC"
Only a single god has EVER offered to add me to thier friend list and that is arf after I brought that issue up to him (I also accepted hisd offer right off).
Then why does Arf claim that you refused that offer?

Quote from: "EVIL_INC"
Especially in the case of EVIL_INC who has been on the server for years and is active.
Yes, for a moment, let's just take a look at how active Evil_inc is.
Evil_inc: character created 823 days ago .
Evil_inc: remort level 16, level 45. That's a total of 1,661 levels (101 * 16 +45).
Simple division: 1661 levels / 823 days = 2.01 levels/day
Yeah, I'd almost call that 'active.' Yes, yes, I know: you don't spend all your time leveling, you help noobs, you get picked on by gods, etc, etc. So do other people. And they manage to play a hell of a lot more than two levels a day. Even Hubba, who does not consider herself an active player, by the way, is almost a God.
Hubba: created 1081 days ago. Remort 99 level 45 (99 * 101 + 45 = 4500 levels total)
4500 levels / 1081 days = 4.16. I'd also argue that Hubba has a lot less ability to play than you, due to being the lead admin. Yet having less free time to play due to administrative duties, Hubba has managed to be twice as active as you. And that is a person who does not consider herself an active player.

Quote from: "EVIL_INC"
You have seen with the bullys like shorty and celtic, they will leave and stop if they face someone who can hurt them back.
Celtic was last seen 146 days ago, and he hasn't actually played since months before that. He quit.
Shorty was last seen 22 days ago. He was declared open season many many months and months ago. Open season means anyone can do anything they want to him, as often as they want. Kill, mug, whatever. No rules when doing things to him. And people take advantage of this to the point that he can barely play. Everyone that can kill him usually will kill him until he leaves. Yet he hasn't actually quit, he comes back for a few weeks every couple months.

The server is the most peaceful it has ever been. The ratio of bullies to good players is lower than it has ever been. In fact, right now there are 15 players connected, 0 of whom have been labeled a bully. 15:0 is a pretty good ratio. Just look at the last post in the Doghouse to get an idea of how recently we've had any issues with players.

Quote from: "EVIL_INC"
The caps would make it so that the low rl could actually stand a chance (however small) to defend themselves.
I suppose you'll also have to cap skills at like 1000 or something. A player who remorts 2000 times has skills around 2000 at level 1...he'd kill a low level player in one hit, even if the low level player has a decent chance at killing him with a few hits. Of course, the god won't die, he has lck. So cap the amount of lck you can get, too.
You know, why even bother remorting at all? You can't gain lck, your HP isn't any higher than someone who doesn't remort, your skills won't be any higher, either.
Let's just cap remorts at 0 and cap levels at 1. That way everyone is equal and can kill each other equally. Wow this is going to be a great rpg when it's done!

Quote from: "EVIL_INC"
Admins or pk do not always move characters in pit. It depends on who is asking and who the god in there is.
Yes, they do. No, it doesn't.

Quote from: "EVIL_INC"
I asked the admins to move them and was flat out told a resounding no and then made fun of
No you weren't.

Quote from: "EVIL_INC"
With the caps and addition of some other small limits (mugging/killing) the problem would be solved and no clear neccessary.
No, caps would not solve the problem. Even if you did cap, you'd have to clear. You can't institute a significant change half way through the life of something: when a change that seriously affects game play is made, you must clear the stats of the players and start over.
 
Quote from: "EVIL_INC"
challenge and addition of fun to the game again.

What would be the challenge? Deschain could still use Anchets at level 1 and be doing almost 1000 damage. He'd still have 20,000 lck points set to miss so he can never die.
You have to cap lck, rl, level, skills. I think I already described just what that would mean, above.

Why should a brand new noob player be able to walk in and just off handedly kill a player who has played daily and made it to rl 2500+? If some random noob can do that, then what is the benefit of continually playing?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969 06:00 pm CST by Kyrie »







astal

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« Reply #83 on: November 17, 2007 07:36 pm CST »
I do NOT want a clear. It was so boring when i was a lower remort level. Anyway it just seems like too much is going to change if there is a clear. I wouldn't have a lot of time to get back to a god because of school. Also I'm moving which makes it even worse. There may not be any challenge after a certain remort level but it is still really fun. Depends on who you are if you get bored of the same thing. Anyway I max sometime with people like aztec or i just max for the heck of it. The bashing helps make the game more fun too but its boring at a low rl cause your bash sucks. If there is a clear I probably will start again just because i can't be away from this game.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2007 08:29 am CST by astal »



JayJay

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« Reply #84 on: November 17, 2007 11:37 pm CST »
Just clear the server, it really isn't a bigdeal.  I doubt people are gonna stop playing just because they have to start over again, besides, they are addicted and always will be.  I say you give these guys their lives back and shut down the server

















Just kidding! :)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969 06:00 pm CST by JayJay »

Lidge Farkley

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« Reply #85 on: November 17, 2007 11:44 pm CST »
A clear with major changes sounds good.

I have not worked on any thing Tribes in over 5 years, that I can think of, but a motivational list and a visual design I could come up with.  If I were to do some thing like this, I would probably need to work with some one to implement the visual ideas.

Also, dynamic content is possible, though would need to be coded in to a map and would take some figuring to implement.  I have worked with this type of thing in my own experimental ways, but it was over 6 years a go and I honestly can't remember most of the stuff about tribes editing.  I worked with all of the old tools, but don't remember how they all work any more.. though I suppose I could try and figure them out (again) and use them.

Finally, I agree that losing the old junk is a good idea (rocks, some of the random in-between minerals, rusty crap, etc) but an even better idea would be to change the #smith to a #hi where he asks what you want to smith, by weapon type, then gives you lists of what can be smithed so you can figure the smithing system out.  Either that, or get rid of the system.. or.. maybe just revise the system to allow things to happen more smoothly.

Interface design..
..I think there has to be some way to make a setup screen that is much easier to edit the key setup, perhaps in a tiered system, or a system that allows the players to set which key-combo they will use to activate certain things.  (like.. ctr + 1 to use a blue potion, or alt + 1 to cast thorn, or something)  If this happens, then you can eliminate all the crap from the previous paragraph that I just rambled about.  All the commands will be apparent, through the key setup, right?

Speaking of thorn.. maybe a lvl 1 mage spell that actually hits stuff, so that new players won't be so damn confused.

Anyway.. I could ramble for hours, but I am certain that dynamic terrain generations are possible.  It would not be completely dynamic, but it would be able to be altered to one of the pre-generated small-terrain plots, either at map load-up (after a server crash, for example) or when a player presses a button in game or something.

uh.. I am going to shut up now, but I love you all and would love to help out in some way...

..this reminds me.. farming and food would be nice to have in the game.. farming normally takes a couple of hours a day (at most) in real life, perhaps a farming character would spend 30 minutes a day to be a decent farmer, in the game, but could spend more time to do more if they want?

...ok ok peace!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969 06:00 pm CST by Lidge Farkley »
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Vorter_X_

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« Reply #86 on: November 18, 2007 12:58 am CST »
OMG Stop typing essays. We don't need them. Yes explain, don't act like everyone is a forkin retard though.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969 06:00 pm CST by Vorter_X_ »

Vorter_X_

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« Reply #87 on: November 18, 2007 10:21 am CST »
LoL nice. Anyhow, we don't need to read ten minutes of nothing every time you post. A few quick sentences or a paragraph at most...Not more than like 8-10 sentences please, because it's effing dumb and a waste of time. Ya say the same thing over and over o.O
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969 06:00 pm CST by Vorter_X_ »

Kyrie

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« Reply #88 on: November 18, 2007 11:36 am CST »
Quote from: "EVIL_INC"
I am asking for them to have a chance to at least...build thier characters to where they can have a chance.


I've proven that, under the current system, this is completely possible without any changes.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969 06:00 pm CST by Kyrie »







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« Reply #89 on: November 18, 2007 12:36 pm CST »
The only reason I said yes for a clear was if there would be significantly new content.  If I did not get that point across in my first post, I'm sorry.

EVIL_INC sounds like he's preaching the perfect communist PCRPG world.  He wants everyone to always be at the same level so that no one holds power over another.

I easily piss people off and I could still level if I wanted to, showing that it's not impossible to level.  Hell, when I first started I had at least seven people who hated me constantly and tried to prevent me from leveling, yet I still did it.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969 06:00 pm CST by RedneckNoob »





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