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KoRo

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Overclocking
« on: January 10, 2008 04:22 pm CST »
My rig is starting to get a little old now, and I'm also short on funds, so I'm looking into Overclocking my CPU and GPU when I get back from Europe. I was hoping some of you tech junkies on here could help me out a little. I've been reading into it a lot, and I've realized that OC'ing is more than just upping the speed of the CPU.


Current setup:

CPU: AMD Athlon 64 3700+ San Diego running at 2.2 GHz (with proper cooling, the A64 can get up to ~3.0 GHz before becoming unstable. Anyone have any cooling device recommendations?)
    It's the HyperTransport Technology (HTT) that gets me confused. I've been reading about OC'ing A64's
here, and like I said before, it seems to be about more than just the CPU speed. (Scroll down to Part 4 of the article to read the relevant stuff).
Anyway, the stock HTT clock runs at 200MHz, and the stock CPU multiplier is set to 11x (thus 2.2GHz).[/list]

MB/RAM: MSI K8N Neo4 Platinum nForce 4 (Newegg does not carry this product anymore). FSB (according to Sandra) is running at 2x 1000MHz. Can support up to 16GB of PC3200. Currently running with 1 GB of Corsair ValueSelect PC3200 (VS1GB400C3). RAM timing @ 200MHz is 3-3-3-8.
    This is where the aforementioned article confused me. Unlike Intel CPUs, OC'ing A64s requires balancing the CPU speed and the RAM. Though I DO understand what I'm saying here (regarding clock speeds, timing, etc),
I don't know what a good balance is. I've seen "ratios" tossed around, such as 1:1 or 5:4 (200:166), but I don't know what they mean, so any explanation of this would be appreciated. Also, I would be willing to get better RAM if anyone can suggest some good products.[/list]

GPU: eVGA GeForce 7800GT 256MB (the eVGA GPU cores come factory overclocked at 445 MHz, and the memory speeds come OC'ed at 1070 MHz. I believe the standard for 7800GT (not sure about this) is 400 MHz core and 1000MHz memory. Many people have said that the 7800GT can be stabily OC'ed up to 495 MHz core with 1220 MHz memory with stock cooling, but I am weary about those numbers (considering the card comes factory OC'ed as it is.)
I have already looked into unlocking the other 4 pipelines, but as of yet it seems that the 7800GTs are unlockable. Whether this is a GPU BIOS thing or a physical thing, I'm not sure. I've heard both sides, so meh.



So, that is my current setup. More than anything, I would like to better understand the relationship of HTT speed/frequency multiplier with the RAM speed/timing. I know how to adjust all or most of these settings in my BIOS, but it seems I can make many adjustments from Windows. I use the nVidia Control Panel (downloadable) and a program called RivaTuner to make tweaks.

I've done a little experimenting on my own, and for a while I was running my CPU at 2.6GHz with no problems (that was before I found out about the relationship between CPU speed and RAM timing. I'm now back to 2.2GHz.) My GPU core is currently OC'ed to 486MHz and the GPU memory is at 1201MHz. I am reluctant to push it any further, though apparently, eVGA's lifetime warrenty will in fact cover damage caused by overclocking (weird, I know. I forgot where I read that, but I DID check it beforehand.)


Thanks
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969 06:00 pm CST by KoRo »
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Celtic16

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« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2008 08:23 pm CST »
Particles your man to talk to about all this, he's overclocked just about everything!

Ps that's an interesting statment about nvidias over clocking policy, wonder what the catch is
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969 06:00 pm CST by Celtic16 »
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Kyrie

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« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2008 08:36 pm CST »
It's evga's policy.

Koro, I haven't read anything good about software solutions for overclocking cpu/ram, but it is good for overclocking your video card.

You should set a goal with your OC. What are you trying to achieve specifically? Better playability in a game? General performance increase?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969 06:00 pm CST by Kyrie »
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KoRo

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« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2008 09:07 pm CST »
General performance increase, mostly. I'd like games such as BF2 to be smoother on a higher setting (right now I have it set at pretty much the lowest it will go, and I miss a lot because of it.) I'd like to be able to play newer games, such as Unreal 3 without sacrificing much in the way of quality. The only thing I won't have is DX10, but I can live with that.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969 06:00 pm CST by KoRo »
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JayJay

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« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2008 11:34 pm CST »
Quote from: "KoRo"
General performance increase, mostly. I'd like games such as BF2 to be smoother on a higher setting (right now I have it set at pretty much the lowest it will go, and I miss a lot because of it.) I'd like to be able to play newer games, such as Unreal 3 without sacrificing much in the way of quality. The only thing I won't have is DX10, but I can live with that.

BF2 eats up your system memory,  get another gig.  I had to upgrade from 1 gig to 2 gigs because BF2 would freeze up for a second every few minutes.
http://http://www.guru3d.com has good overclocking utilities for NVIDIA and ATI cards.  I have a 1950Pro so I use ATI Tray Tools.  You should probably use RivaTuner because it works with both ATI and NVIDIA and it lets you change the card's voltage and fan speed for better cooling.  As for the CPU, I'm not too familiar with AMD since I've never owned an AMD system(only one of my friends has an AMD rig) but you should go into the bios, and raise the FSB untill your computer locks up.  When it locks up it either means it got too hot; you need to raise the voltage; your motherboard doesn't support high FSB speeds.  If your motherboard is good then it shouldn't be a problem so focus on getting a good clock speed and raise the voltage a bit, but keep the temp down with a nice CPU cooler like an Arctic Cooling heatsink/fan.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969 06:00 pm CST by JayJay »
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Kyrie

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« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2008 12:28 am CST »
Yeah, looking at your specs, you should be running BF2 at at least decent settings without a problem, assuming you can get some more RAM. My computer can just barely run it and it's quite a bit weaker than yours (2.19Ghz, 1GB RAM, GeForce5600).

Maybe spend the $50 and get another GB of that same RAM.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969 06:00 pm CST by Kyrie »
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JayJay

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« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2008 01:37 am CST »
Yeah, my specs are almost the same like yours koro, and I run BF2 at 1280x1024 at High settings EXCEPT Lighting, Dynamic Lighting, Shadows.  It's up to you if you want shadows and dynamic lighting, i think it makes the game more difficult cuz you can't see enemies in the shadows so i turned mine off ;)  now I don't have to worry about people hiding in the shadows.
Oh yeah, I recently bought a sound blaster X-Fi fatality pro with 64 mb onboard ram that helps it remove some of the load off the cpu.  it actually raised my frames by 5, but it really depends on your system.  Even if your motherboard came with "great" audio, I still recommend getting the SB X-Fi Xtreme Gamer; Fatality Pro sound cards for great high definition THX certified sound.  I have my soundcard paired with some logitech Z2300's (which are also THX certified) and it really shakes my house, no lie.  I can hear enemies creep up behind me when i'm sniping in a quiet hiding spot on a hill, and stuff like that.  i can even hear the enemies talking from far away.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969 06:00 pm CST by JayJay »
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KoRo

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« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2008 04:33 am CST »
Quote from: "Kyrie"
Yeah, looking at your specs, you should be running BF2 at at least decent settings without a problem, assuming you can get some more RAM. My computer can just barely run it and it's quite a bit weaker than yours (2.19Ghz, 1GB RAM, GeForce5600).

Maybe spend the $50 and get another GB of that same RAM.
Well it runs it decently, but I would definitely like it if it ran smoother.

Would another Gig of the same ram I have be enough? Or should I invest a little more into faster RAM?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969 06:00 pm CST by KoRo »
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Kyrie

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« Reply #8 on: January 11, 2008 11:18 am CST »
Your motherboard supports up to DDR 400, you said up to 16GB, but I think the specs meant 4GB total and not 4GB per slot. I could be wrong, but 32bit Windows won't support more than 3GB, it ignores anything you add after that, so I think 4GB total RAM is more likely.
So since the best that your motherboard supports is DDR400 PC3200, I don't think you can really get anything better, unless you maybe found something with different timings (which may or may not be faster).

You can add newer ram to old motherboards, but the ram will only run as fast as it can support, so at the DDR400 speed. Also, faster ram will be bottlenecked by slower ram, and only run at the speed of the slower ram.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969 06:00 pm CST by Kyrie »
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JayJay

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« Reply #9 on: January 11, 2008 03:08 pm CST »
Quote from: "Kyrie"
Also, faster ram will be bottlenecked by slower ram, and only run at the speed of the slower ram.

Not necessarily, you can adjust the slower ram's timings and speed to run at the faster ram's speed.  Most ddr400 ram could be ran at lower latency's and higher frequencies without problems, at least with my experience with them.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969 06:00 pm CST by JayJay »
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Particle

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« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2008 05:18 pm CST »
Memory timings and clock speed make negligible difference in general system performance.  It's the kind of thing that you never feel unless a benchmark tells you that you should.  I wouldn't bother with worrying about it.  Mix faster and slower ram to your heart's content.

CPU clock on the other hand is easily perceptible.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969 06:00 pm CST by Particle »
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Particle

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Re: Overclocking
« Reply #11 on: January 12, 2008 12:00 am CST »
Quote from: "KoRo"
Quote from: "Particle"
Honestly though, Koro, you can get a new motherboard, dual core CPU, and four gigs of RAM for under $200.  It's by far a better option.
That's news to me. Are you referring to a specific set of products or is that just a ballpark estimate?

$226.96:
AMD Athlon64 X2 5000+ (2.6GHz, multiplier unlocked)
MSI K9AGM2-L Motherboard
2x2GB PQI DDR2-800 Memory

You missed out on the uber-cheap memory deal that would have made this sub-$200, but this is still pretty cheap.
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KoRo

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Re: Overclocking
« Reply #12 on: January 12, 2008 05:08 am CST »
Crud. Well to be perfectly honest, I wasn't planning on implementing ANY of this until after i get back from France and get a job (I don't have $200 just lying around, unfortunately). I guess that would only mean that these products would be cheaper, or maybe not even sold if I'm unlucky. But that is a really nice bundle there.

I think my problem has always been brand loyalty. I went with Corsair because I trusted the name, and I didn't look for anything cheaper, despite what reviews said. I've got to learn to break from that habit. Thank you for the heads up on those items though, Particle. I really appreciate the help.
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JayJay

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Re: Overclocking
« Reply #13 on: January 12, 2008 12:36 pm CST »
Keep up with NewEgg's prices(they've been fluctuating like crazy).  They usually have 2 gigs of ram for like 30 bucks.
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KoRo

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Re: Overclocking
« Reply #14 on: January 14, 2008 06:41 pm CST »
I've got a new problem right now. I've decided for now not to overclock anything, so I know that OC'ing hasn't caused this.

Ever since I got my new 7800GT, I've been seeing artifacts in my 3d games after playing for a few minutes. I've checked the GPU temperature at the time of the artifacting, and I haven't seen it over 57` Celcius. A few times, I've even gotten the BSOD regarding nv4_disp. (The exact error code has varied; one BSOD showed (0x8511D7E8,0x86A2BB38, 0xF78D7CB4, 0x00000001) and the other showed (0x8506B3E8, X852573B8, 0xF7A97CB4, 0x00000001).)

I googled the nv4_disp error and found only a handful of helpful items. One suggestion was to simply reinstall the graphics drivers with the latest version; I did that and it helped a little. The screen doesn't black out for a second while booting like it used to do, and I don't get artifacts in games as quickly as I used to.

The next option I'm considering is updating my motherboard BIOS, but in case the update fails, I don't have any way of getting it back to the original version (no floppy drive). I'm not willing to risk that just yet. Are there any other potential causes for this?
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