Author Topic: The SP system..  (Read 9941 times)

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Jenz

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The SP system..
« on: December 17, 2006 12:14 am CST »
It seems to be more or less a given that the SP system needs to be killed off. It limits creativity and its function is nullified after a few remorts. What sort of system to move to, however, is anyone's guess.

I'm open to suggestions at this point.

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Particle I read your post and an idea popped in my head..

I think the SP system should stay because it does help newbs out a great deal and would convince new players to stay to explore the game more..  And I also noticed that you're server gives out "Particle points" and that you can spend these particle points for SP.. which later on SP just builds up and becomes pointless like you say... well why not make it reverse as well.. would it be possible to make a way to trade in a reasonable ammount of extra SP for a particle point? and maybe you could make more prizes for particle points rather than just SP and housing.. maybe new weapons/armors/spells/abilities etc. that you can only get through particle points for a reasonable price.. just a thought...

-one of your newb players,
nArchy.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969 06:00 pm CST by Jenz »

Particle

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« Reply #1 on: December 17, 2006 12:51 am CST »
That's a pretty interesting idea.  I think that making it bi-transactionable would be a good move, but the core problem still remains.  SP points become nearly worthless (like gold) after so long of playing.  While your idea would see benefit, I feel it would be best to tackle the problem at the source and "do it right" if anything is done at all.  I've come up with some interesting ideas for a replacement, such as a tiered system of skills.  Each sublevel of a skill would be adjustable and each parent skill would impact its subskills in addition to the subskill itself.  Also, getting away from an awarding of SP for each level seems like a good move.  Skill points might be best if they were dynamic based on your actions in the server only.  This would serve two purposes:

1)  Skills would be more reactive to what a player actually does.  You couldn't instantly master a skill in five minutes by clicking a button with thousands of saved up SP.  You'd learn your skills naturally based on how you play the game.

2)  This would also eliminate the need for pre-selected classes altogether.  How strongly you use a skill would cause it to increase more rapidly and also impact how quickly you can learn the other skills--for example if you cast a lot of offensive spells, perhaps that would have a negative impact on physical weapon proficiency.  If you quit casting and focused on physical weapons, you could still increase it and eventually increase quickly, causing a negative impact on increasing casting.  You would dynamically develop your character as you see fit to play, instead of locking yourself into a fixed set of multipliers.  Really.  If you were an unskilled person back in the timeframe this is set, you could go and start learning anything with equal weight.  You wouldn't start off sucking at swords just because you sign a paper saying you want to be a mage.  You simply wouldn't develop the skill as much since you'd be primarily casting.  It would be this more realistic (but still gameplay friendly) approach realized in the game.  Much more would players be free to build a character that they really want instead of a few classes that may not capture the essence of how their optimal game would be played.  This would also prevent the SP buildup problem where people could max all their skills due to sheer saving power.  Fun stuff.  More freedom.  I like pie.

Anyway, that's my current idea.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969 06:00 pm CST by Particle »
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-ShaNNaRa-

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« Reply #2 on: December 17, 2006 12:59 am CST »
Quote
I like pie.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969 06:00 pm CST by -ShaNNaRa- »



Vorter_X_

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« Reply #3 on: December 17, 2006 03:56 am CST »
*cough*TVT w/o sp*cough*
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969 06:00 pm CST by Vorter_X_ »

Particle

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« Reply #4 on: December 17, 2006 07:29 am CST »
What about TVT?  I've never played it.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969 06:00 pm CST by Particle »
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HUBBA

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« Reply #5 on: December 17, 2006 08:21 am CST »
Quote from: "Particle"
What about TVT?  I've never played it.


TVT has the same kinda structure you are talking about. When you start out in the game you get to pick a character and basically get 20 or so sp to put into the character and that is it. Any other skills you want to change or  increase you have to train them.

Talk to Bovodi he runs the TVT server. He would probably be the best one to talk to about that type of sp system.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969 06:00 pm CST by HUBBA »

villman420

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« Reply #6 on: December 17, 2006 10:52 am CST »
tvt theres no remorting so you cant hide behind a high remort char. you also need to know how to duel because if you dont then youre screwed. if you were attacked, you cant drop right away. you have to wait a period before you can drop. this i think would solve the lck when dropped problem we have

bad thing about tvt is, is that people afk more than they do on your server. so it has its goods and bads. i use to be admin on one and we had some really good things i liked on tvt.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969 06:00 pm CST by villman420 »

Xenos

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« Reply #7 on: December 17, 2006 11:10 am CST »
What happens when you drop after being attacked?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969 06:00 pm CST by Xenos »

Particle

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« Reply #8 on: December 17, 2006 11:44 am CST »
That's something I proposed a millionty years ago.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969 06:00 pm CST by Particle »
As a point of history:  Our last server clear was on September 27, 2004.  That is 4963 days ago (13.6 years) as of today.

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HUBBA

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« Reply #9 on: December 17, 2006 01:46 pm CST »
Still a good proposal though.
I also liked Ziggy's ip blocker which only allowed one ip per character to be in the server at a time. Those that were allowed to have two  (me cause of shared router) were warned if caught double logging they would loose it.

The only thing about TVT I did not like was lck system. Just about the time I earned a lck, I would loose it again.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969 06:00 pm CST by HUBBA »

kharandhil

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« Reply #10 on: December 17, 2006 05:11 pm CST »
I don't like the tvt idea that much as building up sp and building it up and using less sp is and should remain a blessing....however it builds up like the pp
I have about 815 pp and 334000 sp right now and nothing to do with them I don't want to lose them for a completely new system
that system particle is talking about will limit remorts...which would be troublesome for those that have gathered remorts liek i've been doing...
a solution would to use sp to buy something....pp aswell both those things should server to buy something like dusts for exemple....
getting to lvl 1000 seems impossible
why not use sp and pp to have a shortcut to that lvl
getting coins dusts or even kel who knows... those are items pretty hard to get
I don't agree with the fact that particle considers money to be useless...as getting to lvl 1000 is impossible because of money reasons...
remorting a lot takes a lot of time, getting pp is more difficult then it seems,
remorting gives u a lot of sp
another thing why not give exp for either pp or sp?
like put a bot in town who u asks u to donate 100 sp for 1000 exp
maybe more...
pps are more rare so u would get even more exp
just some ideas...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969 06:00 pm CST by kharandhil »
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Kyrie

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« Reply #11 on: December 17, 2006 06:48 pm CST »
Money is useless, until you decide (if ever) to max out. I was one of the few gods that never maxed out. My 300 mill is useless. You can play forever with just 10 mil. Probably only 5.

I don't agree with the trading SP for PP idea. Little bobbyjoe, an rl2 lvl 48 mage, is probably going to have under 100 sp to his name. Where as Mr ImARL9000GOD will have around a hundred million sp. He can buy up PP and win any prize he wants.

I will put my mind to the problem and see if I can't come up with a few viable ideas for excessive SP, that remain fair for those with lower amounts of SP.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969 06:00 pm CST by Kyrie »







kharandhil

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« Reply #12 on: December 17, 2006 06:58 pm CST »
i really think sp and pp should be used to buy something but i don't know what...
but i was thinking those 2 could help people max out...
its pretty hard for low rls to max out to lvl 174, just as it is hard to go to lvl 500 as god
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969 06:00 pm CST by kharandhil »
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Jenz

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« Reply #13 on: December 17, 2006 07:27 pm CST »
ok my idea for the trading SP for PP.. i did say reasonable price.. i was thinking along the lines of making it expensive.. i'm new and i'm not really sure what is considered "expensive" to you guys..

Particle, i did like your idea of sublevel skills, thats pretty cool.. instead of totally getting rid of sp.. well i noticed that u can get a pleanty of SP after gaining a level.. u could also make the SP a little less.. make it harder to get as well..
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969 06:00 pm CST by Jenz »

Corona

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« Reply #14 on: December 17, 2006 07:58 pm CST »
I don't think there should be any other factors that affect how you can earn Particle Points (like quests, trading SP for them, etc). That is because PP are strictly meant as a representation of how much you play the game. I thought about having a quest that gives out PP for example, but it would be unfair, like a RL200 player spending 100,000 SP to buy PP.

I've been busy with work lately, so I haven't had a lot of time to come up with new things to do with PP... soon there will be more prizes though.

Tokath runs the PP system btw, so any complaints about it should be sent to me, not Particle.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969 06:00 pm CST by Corona »